Prof. Adam Shoemaker with Indu Koul

Episode 24: Prof. Adam Shoemaker with Indu Koul

From Kashmir to Australia, Indu Koul has challenged conventions. Join me for a fascinating discussion about Indu's career and life journey.

Show notes

From Kashmir to Australia, Indu Koul has challenged conventions. She pioneered a girls' cricket team in her hometown and, for her daughter, established the first female team in her local club's 50-year history.

Now, she's preparing for the Cricket Veteran National Championship.

At work as a Business Analyst, Indu delves deep into new subjects, as seen in her work on the 'Chosen Name Project' at Victoria University. This fantastic initiative has resulted in staff and students ea sily updating their chosen name, pronouns and gender identity on our systems. "The right-minded people came together on this project," she says, and now we are seeing very clear actions to make VU an even more inclusive place.



Adam Shoemaker

Adam Shoemaker

Professor Adam Shoemaker has extensive experience in the Australian University sector and is one of Australia's leading researchers in Indigenous literature and culture. He commenced as the Vice-Chancellor and President of Victoria University in December 2020 after four years as Vice-Chancellor of Southern Cross University. He spent his formative years in a diverse range of fields, such as reviewer and columnist for The Australian, an ABC Canberra Radio programmer, serving as chair of the Brisbane Writers Festival in the mid-1990s and spending three years with the Delegation of the Commission of the European Committees.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello and welcome. I'm here to provide acknowledgement of country. For those who don't know me, I'm kj Karen Jackson, director of Moon Balletic. My genealogy tracks back to Moira Lakes in Barma Forest and Mount Hope in Pyramid Hill. Giving me my connections to Yorta, Yorta, and Barra language groups. There's a couple of things I'd like you to take away from my acknowledgement. The first is to remember the hidden history of Aboriginal people since invasion, our loss of language removal from country, and our new extinction from massacres and pandemics. The second is our strong and inherent connection to community and country. These connections have given us the resilience and courage to rebuild our languages, gain access to country, regenerate our cultural practices in acknowledging the traditional owners of the country on which you are now on. I'd like to sincerely thank them for their generosity and kindness in welcoming people onto their lands. Lands never seeded and lands that run deep into their being and spirit. I wish to pay my deep respect to the ancestors, elders, communities, and families of the Ang Wri on whose land I stand and who create connection and share knowledge with all of us. Thank you.

Speaker 1 00:01:16 Hello colleagues and welcome to the People of VU podcast. Thank you again to KJ for providing an acknowledgement of country at the beginning of every episode. It's so important to all of us and a very great and important message for everyone at Victoria University, wherever our sites may be. I too acknowledge and pay my deep respects to the ancestors, elders, and families of the traditional owners on all of our campuses here, of course, Sydney and Brisbane and overseas. And extend that to wherever you may be listening to this podcast. It's a particular delight today to introduce Indu call an ITS business partner here at Victoria University and with me today. Welcome.

Speaker 2 00:01:58 Thank you. Hello everyone and thank you Adam for having me here.

Speaker 1 00:02:01 It's a delight. And as you may know, colleagues who know Indu, she has been on the staff here for eight years and has recently been involved in a number of transformative pro projects and and products too. We're gonna hear about all of them today. But outside of work, she does many other things too. And not only on the field but in cricket as well. We're gonna hear a bit about that. So I can't wait to talk more about what drives your interests, your passions, and your change. Do welcome and we'll begin. That's great. So can you just tell me, it's very interesting to ask this question. I believe that you were born in Kashmir. So tell us about what that was like growing up in one of the most famous parts of the world, but also one of the most interesting and different parts of the world. What was it like?

Speaker 2 00:02:46 Kashmir is a place where I was born and it is a north part of India. The interesting thing is Kashmir, it is a city, it is a place, but it constitutes to the state of India, which is Jammu and Kashmir. So Jammu and Kashmir not part of India. And they shared the capitals between Jammu and Kashmir due to their geographical challenges. Yes. So the capitals stay is Jammu and winters and summer become, and Kashmir becomes summer capital.

Speaker 1 00:03:20 Summer capital.

Speaker 2 00:03:21 Yes. So my upbringing till six year of my life has happened in Kashmir. Yeah. And, and what happened after that really defines me what I am today. Ah,

Speaker 1 00:03:35 We're going to, we're gonna get into this and I, we will find out that. Yeah. So, and how did it contribute to what you are today? Just tell us about this important transition. I, I think it sounds fascinating. It's

Speaker 2 00:03:44 Really, yeah, it's interesting. So it got, the story goes back to 1990, Adam. I was six year old. Yeah. And due to militancy, insurgency and terrorism in Kashmir. And I belong to a Hindu minority committee. Yes. Yes. And in on, to be precise, the date was 19th January, 1990. Wow. When my parents, along with other hundred thousand of Hindu community in Kashmir were forced to leave their homes. Right. So many of them, including my parents and other family members, found shelter in Jammu, which was neighboring city. And the resilience that this community has shown and my parents have shown for next 10 years, which were really very hard. Yeah. I think that defines me what I'm today. And that resilience helped me and my family in Melbourne during pandemic Yeah. Events.

Speaker 1 00:04:46 I can imagine. Oh gosh. And so tell me, so from six to 16, basically that period and how did it happen that you then left and came to this country? Like when did that occur? Yeah,

Speaker 2 00:04:58 So the important thing that my family had in mind was education. Yeah. So they did, they did compromise on everything else, but not on education. They restrategized how to continue education for, I have two siblings. So we have obviously three in a family with parents. So they re-strategize how to continue my education. Yeah. My siblings education. And that is somehow built in my family's DNA. Right. Education is very important part. I did my Bachelor's of information technology in Bombay. Yes. In India. Yes. And after I finished my bachelor's, when I get my, when I get congratulations, you know, telephone calls, the question is, so when are you doing your master's?

Speaker 2 00:05:46 And, but I wanted to do a job to help my family on financial side. So I went for a job, I got a, I started as a system analyst in one of the IT companies there. Then got an opportunity to go to America on a project for one year where I met my future husband. Ah. Then he already had some plans to get settled in Australia and after married, after we got married, we came to Australia. Yes. And then I got a job here as a business analyst in one of the IT companies. Then I worked a little bit in University of Melbourne. Again, the moment I entered into education industry, I was like, time to do masters.

Speaker 1 00:06:28 So just tell me, just if we just think about this, so where did you go in the United States? Just to be clear?

Speaker 2 00:06:33 It was in North Carolina. North Carolina.

Speaker 1 00:06:35 Ah, okay. There was

Speaker 2 00:06:36 A small town wilkesboro.

Speaker 1 00:06:39 Oh yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:06:39 So I think the company name was Lowe's. So Lowe's incorporation company. And I was on a project for one year there. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:06:49 But that was very wonderful year and you know, on a personal level as well as professional one and it changed everything. It was

Speaker 2 00:06:55 Really, it was really, and I think education was something that really helped me.

Speaker 1 00:06:58 Yeah. It's just like the, the passport, the education passport took you there. Yes. Then here, then of course you start to work in tertiary ed and that starts to open up and saying, what will I do for myself as well? Absolutely. So then did you decide that the master's door was opening or not?

Speaker 2 00:07:14 So I worked for a little while in Melbourne University. I got an email that had a staff program. Those staff who are interested in studying further. Yeah. So I went to the coordinator. So because I had done bachelor, bachelor's in information technology. So for me the door was into opening into engineering department. Yes. So I met and coordinator, I said I wanna do master's, but part-time. But I have two things that I need to sort out. Yeah. One is I wanna do masters by research work so that it can pave a path for PhD because I wanna study further. Not sure when, maybe down the line sometime. Yes. And I don't have money. Ah,

Speaker 1 00:07:55 Yes.

Speaker 2 00:07:56 It's too expensive. Yes.

Speaker 1 00:07:58 It always is.

Speaker 2 00:07:58 So isn't it? It comes down to money. I said I just started my job, but I definitely wanna go ahead. So can you help here? What are my options? So they set my options. There were some women in graduation program. CSP is it? Yes. Scholarship program. And I think I got lucky Adam. I applied for scholarship, Commonwealth Scholarship and I got it. Oh great. 'cause there was a program, women in IT program that time going. Yeah, I got it. I started part-time Masters. Ah. Then I, then we shifted to west here and somehow my path drove me towards Victoria University, but I still continued my part-time Masters had to take a break because of two lovely children. Ah,

Speaker 1 00:08:45 Yeah. Well that's okay. That

Speaker 2 00:08:46 Came to our lives. So, but finished my master's eventually and just, just after pandemic I got, I did the graduation, you know, I got got to graduation

Speaker 1 00:08:55 Ceremony. I remember. I remember.

Speaker 2 00:08:56 Yeah. Yeah. So it was very, yeah. So it was like four or five years of period. Yeah. For, you know, doing my

Speaker 1 00:09:02 Masters. It was such a moment. I remember seeing you, you know, cross the stage in that sort of glow of excitement. Yeah. Not just the lights. The glow was coming from you, not from the lights, you know, was much more like in the, you know, under the, and it was such a special time, you know. And when you say your path sort of drove you or led you to Victoria University. Yeah. Can you remember the first time that you actually came to vu?

Speaker 2 00:09:24 Oh yes. So I was, I got recruited on a business analyst role. I was at Ashley Street. Ah, first time when I joined Victoria University, it was Ashley Straight. Interesting. Yeah. And then we moved to here. So I have seen that period since 2015. You know, we moved from Ashley straight to building K, then building D. Yes. Then back to K, then back to D. So, and now I'm back to K in my new role. That's

Speaker 1 00:09:53 Right.

Speaker 2 00:09:53 So it's a full circle for me at vu.

Speaker 1 00:09:55 Yeah. Well you like this building it, it comes back again, doesn't it? That's

Speaker 2 00:09:58 Right. It comes back again and again. I love it. Yeah, that's

Speaker 1 00:10:00 Good. Now let me just ask you, just pause for a second. 'cause we're gonna talk about VU for some more, but I think there are other things in your life though too. Tell me about the sports side of your life. Yes, I'm interested in that very much.

Speaker 2 00:10:13 It goes back to 1990 again. Ah,

Speaker 1 00:10:15 It does. Okay.

Speaker 2 00:10:18 Times were hard. 10 years were really hard for me and my family. And there was very less entertainment. Something that could clue us to, you know, where we could rent it out. Whether it was financial hardships or social hardships. So in, in my school that time, boys were given cricket kit and soccer kit and we girls were given badminton kit. Oh really? Yeah. I used to challenge that status quo. And I have failed. I failed it completely. But after six, seven years of continuous challenging it, finally they said, okay, let's have a girls' match. Mm. Let's cricket match. So we lost my class. Lost it. But that is something triggered in me and I really wanted to play it again and again. I didn't want to watch it. I want to play it. So me and my sister went door to door in our street back in Jammu and we got a team up.

Speaker 1 00:11:16 Wow. We

Speaker 2 00:11:17 Got two teams up. Cousins, neighbors, their kids. And we played street cricket for a couple of years. Hmm. We had no guidance on technicality. No idea whether it is a throw or a legal delivery or a illegal delivery. I didn't know. But we enjoyed that time. Yep. And when I came here, there's a great community set up here, Adam, in Australia, especially in Victoria, you must see the strategy. Cricket Australia and especially Cricket Victoria. The part that they are drawing out for female participation. It's amazing. It's really good.

Speaker 1 00:11:55 Yeah,

Speaker 2 00:11:55 It's really good. I live in Point Cook, so next door there's a point Cook Cricket Club, just three minute drive from my house. Wow. And I was like, I just went into it. I said, I wanna enroll my daughter. And they said, we don't have girls team here. I said, how about we set up one and then we got few friends together. We set up girls team. While we were having conversation about setting up girls team, we thought, how about women's team?

Speaker 1 00:12:19 Right. Good. Even better.

Speaker 2 00:12:21 So our three years back, our women team was the first ever women team. In 50 years of that club's history.

Speaker 1 00:12:29 Gosh. Well done.

Speaker 2 00:12:31 So three years back, I started this community cricket journey. Recently in my winter competition, I play both summer and winter. I love it. So in my winter competition, my captain suggested me, even though you should play for nationals, I was like, I don't have in it. I'm just learning. She was like, I want you to register here. Australian Veteran National Championship. Yep. Yeah. Which is, I think it's second in second. It's the, it's the second time that's happening in the last two years. So I want you to register for it and I want you to come for selection trials. Wow. So from Point Cook to Saxon Sport in Creon, I used to go every Thursday in August for my selection trials. They selected me. And I'm in this court. It's happening in November. November.

Speaker 1 00:13:24 Very soon. It's happening in November. We're speaking the month before. It's great. Yes. It's coming. What position are you playing?

Speaker 2 00:13:29 They haven't really mentioned the Scots yet. Still shall not, but, but it, it would be soon. So there are 15 teams coming together, playing from Tasmania, from Adelaide, from I think Queensland, new South Wales is hosting it this time. Great. And it's amazing. Do

Speaker 1 00:13:48 You love batting?

Speaker 2 00:13:49 I love batting. I love balling. I love fielding, but I'm not sure of wicked keeping.

Speaker 1 00:13:53 Yeah, that's the hardest. I mean, look, I'm a terrible wicked keeper. Like that's the worst thing in the world. When I came to Australia, just so you know, and this was in the 1980s, I used to play baseball like so well Little league as they used to call it. Right. As a kid. And so somebody heard this and said, well, he must know how to catch well a little. But I didn't play, I wasn't the back back catcher. I actually played third base. So, but suddenly they ended up pushing me into wicked keeping. And I did this for two years. Two years. Two years in the lowest grade ANU team. There was, I think it was sixth grade or eighth grade or something. It was like the one that was, you know, for all the outcasts. Yeah. I was one of them. But then the best time I ever had was when we had a single day where you got the best person from the first grade, third grade, fifth grade and so on. And I was part of a sixth aside team with five really good players and I was the worst. Oh, amazing. Yeah. So anyway, it was great for me, but I'm still terrible.

Speaker 2 00:14:49 I'm still learning, but I enjoy it. Yeah,

Speaker 1 00:14:51 It sounds like you're not, you're the reverse. You, you're just on the up.

Speaker 2 00:14:55 I don't know about that, but yeah. Congratulations. I'm, I'm supported. Well I have mentors, you know, who tried to pull you up. Yes. Other than pulling you down. That's so good. So I think that's really amazing.

Speaker 1 00:15:07 Well look, I mean you can't wait to see what happens in November. I mean, you know, that's a wonderful thing. Very proud of you. And you're doing this all the time while working at VU as well and having a life. Yes. So, gosh, let's talk a little bit about the side where you get paid. Shall we? Yeah. So that is for, you know, the work you're doing here. So IT transformation, of course you see that in cricket two, but let's, let's face it. Yeah. Digital transformation is everywhere. Everything we see, everything we do, everything we touch. So what technology changes do you think are going to happen particularly for us in tertiary education? Sure.

Speaker 2 00:15:41 In addition to these online learning platforms, I, what I observe here, I believe our students are, their demands and their needs are changing. If you see our students, I think the biggest challenge in front of our students is they're working and studying at the same time. At Hmm. So any technology, whether it is AI or automation or any digital transformation, they have to carve a path for these students.

Speaker 2 00:16:15 They have to, they have to enable us to build those capabilities so that we can serve these students and their changing needs. And I would say one of the things that I have observed is, and I can predict is that personalized learning would be one of the important thing. That would be the key differentiator. Yeah. But how do we understand their demands? Hmm. I think data would be a key factor there, Adam. We need to understand the data. Yeah. We need to collect the data, understand it, bring data insights into it. And based on that we can then transform things here at

Speaker 1 00:16:54 Vu. Yeah. So data science in the service of the individual, but collectively managed, is that what we're saying?

Speaker 2 00:16:59 Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1 00:17:00 So, but also accessible to the individual to input. Yes, as well. I get it. Yeah. So it becomes a filtering, but yeah, as you put it, personalization at scale. Yeah. Okay. Well that's great. And you know, I think people, a lot of them hear the acronym or hear AI and fear it. Do you fear it?

Speaker 2 00:17:17 No, I don't fear it. Yeah. As far it's managed and whether it's a hybrid mode or in whatever mode, I think it's different to different organization. It completely drives based on the needs of the organization and our student needs, I would say. So it has to be student centric. Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:17:34 And we have some very, very good researchers and teachers already and now professional staff working. Yes. It's almost like this collective embrace working together. So that's also good. You can teach the thing that you do and you can do the thing that you teach. Absolutely. That's what our, our model is effectively with Flip flipped campus as well. So I'm interested to know where you think then that relates to, shall we say other things we do, which are personally chosen? Yeah, for example, the chosen name project, you've been very much a leader for this. Tell us more. Because that has a very strong personalization at scale element as well.

Speaker 2 00:18:11 So it goes back in January this year, my manager, my then manager, Ellie VE came to me and said, indu, you have to lead this project. I was like, what is it? I was like, chosen name, like can you tell me more about it? Yeah. So I'll be honest, I had not much idea about it. Right. And if I had to lead it, I got nervous, like, can you tell me more about it? And she mentioned about various challenges, funding, change management, our legacy infrastructure here. But when I heard the stories of our students, the pain that they're going through, I told her, I said, I'm sorry, I don't think I can do justice to the project. Right. And she's like, why? I said, of all these channel challenges, which we can manage, it's a different project. It's not my regular IT project where I can put project management 1 0 1 on top of it and roll it out and get it done.

Speaker 2 00:19:08 I said, it's gonna make difference in people's lives. It's gonna change their lives. Yeah. I have a biggest challenge, which is not funding, not other things. It is awareness of the subject. Yes. I had zero awareness of the subject. Yeah. I said, can you help me here? So we had a session organized by our VU pride team here, the awareness session. It was amazing. Then I got another session organized for my project team, one more session for working group. Everybody had to be aware of it. What we are gonna do here, isn't it? As I said, it was not a regular IT project. Just a small story here. I thought the question was silly on my side. In one of the sessions that I was doing, I asked the presenter, I said, I have to lead this project. I have to speak to many stakeholders, staff, students, internal, external. Do I have to make them believe in the subject? I got a very sensible answer. And that really helped me along the journey of the project Adam. And the answer was no. We don't want people to believe in the subject, we want them to change their actions.

Speaker 1 00:20:24 Yep.

Speaker 2 00:20:27 And I really liked it. It stayed with me. And that's how I went ahead with the project and I'm really proud of it.

Speaker 1 00:20:35 Oh yes. Well, I mean, pride is the operative word too. You know, let's, let's be clear. And so we as a organization are very, very thrilled with the whole Pride Network, but also the leaders of it who, who drove this strongly, but also at the right time, we believe, you know. And so, and we've seen the opting in the opting in the opting in of both students and staff really kind of in very rapid form. And what, do you know what the latest numbers are off the top of your head? Yes, sure.

Speaker 2 00:21:02 I think if I remember correctly, last till last week, roughly around 876 students have updated their chosen details, which is mix of first name, last name, yeah. Email addresses. They have affirmed their genders. Yeah. And they have updated their pronouns. Fantastic.

Speaker 1 00:21:21 And

Speaker 2 00:21:21 Roughly around 87 staff have updated their chosen details.

Speaker 1 00:21:25 Yes, yes. So we, we still have a way to go, but the the time is now and the welcoming mat digitally is there for anyone to do it. And you made that happen? I've

Speaker 2 00:21:35 Not, not just me. I can't take the credit off it, but yes. The entire chosen name project team, yes. Really did well I think. Right-minded people came together on this project, Rob.

Speaker 1 00:21:46 Exactly, exactly. I'm gonna say I

Speaker 2 00:21:48 Did this amazing thing.

Speaker 1 00:21:49 I'm gonna, I say you, it's one of those words in eng in English where it can be individual or collective. So I mean the collective, you know, team. Team as a work. Absolutely. And is the team gonna present on this anywhere else? I I, I understand there's an interest in other places about what we're doing.

Speaker 2 00:22:02 So we've been invited to present our chosen name journey in a Pride and Practice conference in Sydney in November. Yes. So I and Fisher are going to present our chosen name journey at Sydney's conference in November.

Speaker 1 00:22:19 So November is when a lot is happening.

Speaker 2 00:22:22 It's back to back. I'll be playing in Wollongong. Yeah. First week and then second week it, it just fallen in place actually I would say. Yes. Yes. Isn't it? So I'll be there when we had to present it. So it's amazing. Yeah. I'm really super excited for it.

Speaker 1 00:22:36 The sequencing on November is the, the month, the 11th month of the year. Stars

Speaker 2 00:22:40 Have aligned there.

Speaker 1 00:22:40 It has done, you know, lots, lots stellar, you know, as they say, stellar stars. Stellar stars. No, it's good. Now, speaking of which, when you look up at the sky at night and of course the further away you get from the city, the better it is to see the stars. You know, there's less light pollution, but you can see the same if you're in the wilderness as well. Yeah. I know that a third part of what you're interested in is getting out or should we say outback or up high trekking. Tell me more about this.

Speaker 2 00:23:05 Yes. So again, it goes back to my place where I was born. I've seen nature everywhere. While I was growing up in Kashmir, I was just seven year old when we had to move out. But I've seen rivers flowing next to my house. I've seen, you know, apple trees, my grandparent, my grandparents were farmers. I've seen apple trees, pier trees, cherry trees. So, so yes, in Melbourne, I in Victoria, I started doing trekking, hiking. It's a challenge for my, me and my family actually because I really want them to get up early in the morning and come with me. Mm. But none of them agrees. That's okay. So there's a tracking group that we have formulated Yeah. In Victoria. And we do some checks here. So, so far this year I have covered plenty guard Dandenong Ranges. Yeah. There is Macon Ranges. There's another one. Is that yang? Oh,

Speaker 1 00:24:10 Yang. Yang. Yang. Yeah, that's

Speaker 2 00:24:12 Right Yang. Yes.

Speaker 1 00:24:14 And if, and if my pronunciation is incorrect, I will be corrected. I'm sure someone listening to this, we'll, we'll get us the correct pronunciation of it. It's You yang, you yang, I think

Speaker 2 00:24:23 Yang. Yeah. Yeah. And webi go.

Speaker 1 00:24:26 Oh and the webi gorge as well. Okay, fantastic. That's beautiful.

Speaker 2 00:24:28 Present it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really, so I covered all these places this year. Yeah. And hoping to cover more next year.

Speaker 1 00:24:34 Wow. Wow. This is something. So look it, it seems to me that when you talk about it, and you've done this now with the cricket and you've talked about it with the chosen name and this, you were saying, I did this, but then the group did that. Yeah. And it's actually this interplay between the individual and the group and also the captain and cricket or Correct. Whoever's leading a project in work or who's leading it in a trek. It seems to me you have a very clear idea of what leadership is.

Speaker 2 00:25:00 I think so. I think leadership is a very key factor. Not only in organization, every part of life. Even in household. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it? And I think the best form of leadership, which I have seen, is to create more leaders. Yes.

Speaker 1 00:25:17 Yes.

Speaker 2 00:25:18 And to create that legacy here. And I would say I've been supported very well as I said, that it's really important to pull people up rather than pulling them down. Sure. And yeah, I think in terms of leadership, I can share another one. I'm part of this Kashmiri community in Victoria. Yes. When times were hard, Adam, back in 1990, everybody helped us. Yes. Not only my community, not only Kashmiri, Bandit's community, other communities, they came forward. Mm. We were supported Well in their own capacity. Yeah. Within their own abilities. And I think that's another thing that's really, that has really stayed with me, is helping each other. Yeah. So when I came to Melbourne, the first thing I did is try to identify the community here and started volunteering with them. So volunteering is another big part of my life. Okay. And we have a registered organization here in Victoria. We do meet, often try to stay together. And I'm part of the committee and there were few years where I was leading the committee as a president. And I have learned so many things, you know, apart from other sides of my life. I think helping each other is the ultimate purpose of life. Yeah. Adam,

Speaker 1 00:26:41 I, I certainly get it very strongly from you and it's wonderful. If you think back over these Podcasts we've had 25 or so now. Yeah. And very, very high number of people are very giving people. And even if they don't admit it, they tell us about it. Do you know what I mean? You know, they tell us about it. And you've done the same today, which is fantastic. 'cause I think there's a kind of VU character or VU code, which is, it attracts people who want to give. Yeah. And love to give and are part of a collective of others who are like-minded. You know? It's, that gives a great pride. It is a, it's wonderful teaching, fabulous research, but giving to people underpins it all. Yeah. And that's so good too. So given that where we are, here we are, of course November is coming, but then the next couple of years is coming too. Yeah. What do you think excites you the most about the future of this university?

Speaker 2 00:27:32 Of this university? I think towards one program and the initiatives that we have aligned to set for future and growth, that really excites me. Great. And some of the initiatives that I am directly part of our, let's say student centric admissions. Yes. The service excellence. Yeah. Well that's very interesting. And that's real, that really excites me. How we are gonna transform this university. And times are changing and things are changing here, but everything that is happening through towards one program is setting us for future here. Yeah. Okay. So I'm really excited for towards one VU program and its initiatives.

Speaker 1 00:28:10 Oh, I'm so, I'm, I'm pleased to hear. 'cause it's only as strong as those who are leading it and you are one of them. So towards one of you is a thing which is about uplift and change and renewal, but also using technology to benefit people. Which frankly has been the whole aim and name of our discussion today. How to use one technique or one approach to benefit everyone. Absolutely. And I think that's what we're talking about. So we cannot but wish you the very best with ball in hand, with microphone in hand, and of course in keyboard as well. Keyboard. So that's great. Thank you so much. It's been a wonderful discussion.

Speaker 2 00:28:46 Thank you for having me here. Thank you.

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