Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Well, you know, I have told over the years, when I watch how individual Australians America than others in different parts of world, their dedication to East, there are some individuals that, like this John sin from Melbourne. God, what a person. And he was so meticulous with money once, you know, I bought from him my own books
Speaker 1 00:00:36 And with a markup,
Speaker 0 00:00:38 10, 10 books I published in New York. I had a great review with the New York Times, but still no one bought the book.
Speaker 1 00:00:47 And
Speaker 0 00:00:48 So anyway, he, so I bought from him, but I did not pay yet, you know, but it chased me for years, for years with, with an invoice until I said, God, I have to pay this guy. So remind me, when I was in, in 86, I did a semester in St. Anthony's College in the uk. A friend of mine told me, he said, Jose, you have to study Ian Southeast Asia. Your country will be independent. You should understand. No. And you arranged for me to have a several months studying there. Anyway, I was there as a senior person. So Friday I had this silly British tradition of the So-called high table. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you, so I would sit with academics, very boring conversation, boring food until I discover some Indian takeaways in, in, in Oxford. So anyway, and then we are supposed to pay. So I didn't pay the high table dinner. Yeah, God. There was this, er, his, his title was, no, not er, this gentleman, he chased me everywhere with the bill. Oh, after I had left Oxford back to New York, I would get the bill. Then I moved to Washington, dc I got the bill, I came to Australia a I was very impressed. God, these guys are very organized. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:02:30 And then the beer was going up, up, oh yeah. It was from Amir, a hundred plus pounds to 300. I, I better pay now. Oh gee. So I did pay then in 2015, I was honored by St. Anthony's College. Oh no, I went ahead for some event. I had paid it. Yes,
Speaker 1 00:02:47 You paid the bill. By then
Speaker 0 00:02:49 I told the story, you know that I want to meet that person.
Speaker 1 00:02:53 That's right.
Speaker 0 00:02:54 He, he chase me nonstop. Yeah. So at that time, I joke, I said, God, one day when Timor is free this, I'm going to invite this guy to be in charge of our, our finance minister.
Speaker 2 00:03:08 He can be the treasurer. Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 0 00:03:11 I was told he had, he had died. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:03:13 Okay. But look, I promise you this water is free as is and all the reception, you know, facilities here. I did want to ask you just one final question before we throw it open to members of the audience. And that's, you know, so much that you could do that the country, it's a wonderful country. But if you had to pick maybe three of the most patent opportunities for Timor Lesse as you see them right here, right now, just the top three, what do you think they would be?
Speaker 0 00:03:36 Would Well, a, I would talk about the failures. It's just for me, incomprehensible that 23 years after independence, we resources that we have, we do have some resource of our, as you know, the sovereign family. We still have a, such a high level of child malnutrition, mother's malnutrition. We still have so many derelict schools around the country. This for me is unforgivable. Yeah. It is not irresponsibility of lack of caring. All the leaders. I'm not, you know, I was foreign minister, prime minister, only eight months. And as probably, you know, the president, Tim is not executive minister in charge now is the prime minister in his cabinet. They decide the priorities and the budget, the implementation, so on. I can only advocate and I cannot advocate too much or too loud because then the prime minister can get upset and so on. So, but I do advocate forcefully from day one.
Speaker 0 00:04:53 Yeah. To invest more in agriculture. First, I said during, before I agreed to run for president, because it was not my choice. I was approached. I was lobbied, lobbied to run again for president. And, but I told everybody, listen, I prefer to be prime minister or if not, give me the portfolio of economics. I'll show you. So everybody, in five years, I changed the country. Yeah. But no, they want me to run for president. So, so I did. So this frustration, and of course I cannot talk too much because if I talk too much about economic mom botana, you say, excuse me, would you like in 2028 to run for parliament? For for to be prime minister? Yeah. Now just stick with,
Speaker 2 00:05:50 Stick to your knitting as they say.
Speaker 0 00:05:52 And he, he, he would be right. So, but I take collective responsibility even. Yeah. I just give you one little example. When I was prime minister of eight months, I did what the most people didn't know. Actually no one know probably I call in the IIM F1 young gentleman called Tobias from Denmark. I said, list of eyes. I want a proposal to almost completely eliminate taxes in the country and I want it in three months. He said, no, three months I cannot, six months time. So by January, February, that following year, he brought me the comprehensive study, as I said, I wanted, because I remember commenting back home, I used the English expression better than the Portuguese or Latin. Because in English, very short, two, three words. You say what you want. I said, our policies, I summarize in two, three words. We tax business out of business.
Speaker 0 00:07:01 What we need to know to, to do is to incentives to anyone who can create jobs. So I propose this. And then of course by 2007, Shaana persuaded me to run for president Id in 2008 or 2009, the government adopted this policy making Tim or less one of the six or seven countries with the lowest tax in the world. Of course, that was part of my limit understanding of economics. It is not only low tax, that is an incentive for invest. I knew that. But anyway, there are other challenges, just justice sector, land and the property and how fast, how honestly the courts handle disputes, contractual disputes. So all of this has create problems for us not to really today have a, a robust independent economy. Had I been prime minister this time, 2000 in the last election, and now I told people if I were to be the prime minister, I would change completely the way the hierarchy of the government in, in the world is because hierarchy everywhere in, in the west, in the third world country, you have the prime minister. Second in the hierarchy. Usually the foreign minister in Timor we call it senior minister, but in Portugal is Minister Deta in France is minister that town. So, and that usually just one the foreign minister. Yeah. But in France they had two the the minister. But I would say for me, the prime, the priority prime minister and the second in the hierarchy would be the S of agriculture.
Speaker 0 00:09:07 It doesn't mean that education and health will be number two, number three. No, just that in the order of protocol of seniority, agriculture, educational and all education and health, agriculture all will be the three number ones. It means priorities, means budget, allocation, attention and all of that. However, the third world of few exceptions, we never do that. We go with a priority of money for, of course, in the case of Tim, I agree. Because infrastructures, you know, roads and roads and roads, these is absolutely necessary for an economy. Electricity. Yeah. Absolutely necessary. Of course, in this case, yes, we invest hundreds of millions of dollars in electrification of the country. Yeah. But far too expensive in a other country like Mexico for electricity also very expensive. If you employ X number of people, the company proportionally to the number of people you employ, you have, you have your electricity bill reduced almost down to like 30%. You pay only 30%. Yeah. Because for a government, whether in Mexico, Tim or whatever, third world country, and in general most important is that employment, employment creation. And the people get their dignity, their salary. They, well, they reasonably well paid it's fair, and they pay their taxes. But unfortunately we, we are not doing that. I haven't seen the 2025 budget that government is proposing. I trust that it'll be more responsive, that responding more to the crying needs of the children, the women, the pregnant women of our country.
Speaker 2 00:11:23 It's a wonderful answer. 'cause I asked you for three and you gave equal three ones, you know? Yeah. Like that's a really interesting way of approaching the problem. 'cause they're so interlinked. And I think all of us realize the human factor and the use is just as important as the infrastructure. And you've done that brilliantly. Well, we thank you. Did you want to ask us any questions before we throw open to the audience? Anything at all? How do these pipes bend? It's up to you.
Speaker 0 00:11:47 Well, I, I don't know. Well, what the question posed as a question, but I would repeat here an appeal, a speech I made at University of New South Wales 2015 in the launching of some program or no refugee and a migrants, I would say Australia has been, Australia's a country of, you know, immigrants like the US. And in my own country, whenever I talk to communities in the country, thank you. I never really hear of anyone complaining about to foreigners come to Timor. Less. Okay, so here one and here and there. But we do have many foreigners there. From Nepal to Bangladesh, to Pakistan to India, 10,000 Indonesian, 10,000 Chinese, new Chinese, Filipinos, et cetera. Et many. And in the inter, so we put all of this together, tens of thousands, none of them rely on social security service from work. They all create a job and they create more jobs for, for locals.
Speaker 0 00:13:19 Yeah. And when I speak to our people, and once I went to island many years ago, and there was someone there, a police, as they said, we awarded so many Indonesians coming here looking for medical help because neighboring islands, you know, they closer to Aru than to Bali or whatever. And I told them at the time I was president, I said something that of course has, has no force of law, you know, so, and but I said the following to the police, to everybody, every time someone land on our shore asking for water, for food, for medical care, for shelter, we don't ask questions. We welcome them. Only after we have received them, treated them, fed them. Then you ask, by the way, brother, where are you from? And Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I want Tim or less to be. Yeah. And I fought for that.
Speaker 0 00:14:42 And we already, I met, I discussed with Mr. Shanan prime minister a few months ago. He agreed we are going to take some Burmese people, those who are in Thailand or whatever. And I have discussed with the NUG people I've discussed with IOMI float this idea in passing with Australian embassy in Denver. The strategy is we could begin to accept, let's say 100 preferable families with children. So that children can have a peaceful environment and study, or farmers who can work in agriculture and help us in the agriculture sector. During Indonesian time, during Indonesia, occupational Timor was the only time, ironically that Timor Lester did not import rice. Wow. Wow. They brought in model ese farmers. And I don't know whether the Indonesian farmers would want to repeat the experience and, but yes. Why not the Burmese and or it specialists, university professors, whoever. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:16:07 We welcome them and we already give a diplomatic passport to several senior NUG officials. Yeah. Already at least seven or eight diplomatic passports. That's amazing. And so, and because I told Al, listen, we have here thousands of people, Bangladesh and the Vietnamese. Indonesian. So why can't we have 1000 Burmese 12 one day they go back home if they wish to go back. Otherwise they stay on. So anyway, Australia can do much, much more than that to support the people of Burma bring, bringing in them to study here to help prepare for the future. Because the future is going to happen very soon. The military, this time we is losing the war. Very soon the democracy forces will take Mandalay and then it'll be the beginning of the end of the military regime to be there for 50, 60 years. Yeah. However, I have alerted everybody possible. He's all in the PO President Fran in Paris, we, David Kaon and all that. Secretary of the un, we always failed. We all, we all talk about prevention. Prevention and prevention of conflict. That's became a rhetoric cliche because we never actually able to prevent conflict. Gaza, the tragedy of today could have been prevented. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:17:57 Ukraine did not have to happen and Myanmar need not have to happen. But on Myanmar we have a second chance. Yeah. To prevent the conflict from spiraling out of control. So something has to be done. Now, I cannot say what I discussed with the Pope or with others, but at least we are doing our share. So Australia Yeah. Will do much more. It is not a major power. It is a significant power. But, you know, look, Norway and other small countries, they have, they have succeeded in mediating conflicts in ending conflict that was started by the big powers. Yeah. Or not always by the big powers. But there are some internal situations in the region that have nothing to do with the big powers. And we cannot have, I, I resist that temptation. Everything you blame on America to blame on the Chinese. And now something happened. But Australia, the not the major military power, not has no territorial ambitions anywhere, could be really a neutral country. Mm. I don't say neutral in regard to United States. I mean you play a mediating role, a bridging role. You have the resources, you can build some coalitions with like-minded country. Yeah. To help accelerate resolution of Myanmar to look at the Ukraine and well, and many other situation. I think I know your staff be cut becoming nervous.
Speaker 2 00:19:43 Well they never really get nervous. It's all peacemaking and peacekeeping, but also a bit of timekeeping as well. That's all just a slight amount, you know, just a slight amount. But you know, the main thing is, and as someone who was born in Canada where that tradition was very strong, I feel the same urge to sort of wrap it up in this sense because it's been so wonderful. And I hope you'll forgive me if we don't sort of do questions from the floor because it just has just rolled on in the most incredible way.
Speaker 0 00:20:07 My apologies.
Speaker 2 00:20:07 Yeah. It's just, but it just, this is what you call a, a podcast extraordinary. And we do have one thing before we finish. And it's actually something which I hope you will not have anticipated because I didn't anticipate it until a week ago. But what it is, is this now we really care a lot about what Karen Jackson or KJ said before. And we are looking for first nations cooperatives, first nations ethical businesses to with whom we can partner. And there's one we found, which is very interesting. It's actually called Magpie Goose. Magpie Goose. A very important, beautiful bird. Beautiful bird. It's based in Bowen Hills in Brisbane. So we're very, you know, not opposed to going across borders, unlike the person, you know, who you, we were talking about before who had robbed the Commonwealth Bank. But this is sincerely handmade linen. And the design is actually by an artist from the central desert. So I know that you love to sort of talk about the whole person, but this is the whole garment. And there's one for you as well on behalf of all us with great love, affection, and thanks. That's why I thought you don't have to open it. I can sort of demonstrate and then give you the gift, which is here. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's great. But I cannot say, say, it's just been amazingly. We'll never forget it. Thank you so much. So
Speaker 3 00:21:21 Much. That's so great. Well, well, so good. Thanks everyone. Thank you everyone. I'll just thank you so much. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 00:21:38 Thank you all so much for attending this absolutely wonderful event. And I would like to just acknowledge our vice chancellor professor Adam Shoemaker. I thought those questions were excellent and really perceptive and really helped us get to know his excellency today. And of course, thank you to you, president Ramos Hoer. I think we're all gonna leave here today feeling a little bit better, having heard from you. And we're really gonna be imbued with the strength of your wisdom and your grace. And definitely your humor as we all strive for a future defined by understanding and harmony. We are really immensely grateful to you. That concludes our formalities today. Thank you again for joining us and if you can, we enjoy, invite you to join us now for some light refreshments. Thank you.
