Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Yeah, well actually young Timorese, a general, a very, I would say very polyglot. Mm. I learned languages and I studied, you know, like I studied Spanish, took me one year to, to be fluent in Spanish. But once in Timorese, we had medical, Cuban medical doctor there, they set up a medical school. And one day in 2006 I was prime minister. I went to inaugurate or to listen to the presentation of the school curriculum. And it was a young ese who was called, was assigned to talk to me in Spanish about the school curriculum. His Spanish was flawless and he didn't speak a word of Portuguese because Portuguese speakers, they think they speak Spanish. No they don't. No. Spanish is Spanish. Portuguese is Portuguese and substantively different. And I spent one year in New York studying Spanish. And so I, I just don't make up. So anyway, but that guy speaks so well. I said, how long you been studying Spanish? He said, one month.
Speaker 0 00:01:17 God, you know, I had advantage of speaking Portuguese. So that's, you know, 80% not I would say, but 60% similar. Wow. But a lot of this God Spanish, so word of another language or French or Spanish with the grammar stuff one month. But generally it is more than three months to six months. Our Chinese friends in mainland China, we have many students there. I ask them, how long does a take to enter to university in Chinese? They say six months. They fluent in Mandarin. Wow. Written and spoken cancer university just now. When I went there and they learn easily Korean because we have many young ese went to Korea to work, some to study, some have done PhD in Korean language, some growing on and on studying in, in, in China, but also in Brazil where one Timorese, I met him the other day in Dihi.
Speaker 0 00:02:27 He came back from Brazil, only temporarily. He was a PhD, postdoctoral research. And he is the head of a research department in the university. De and importantly stayed so many people, some already one. He contacted me because he needed some, some support. He would done PhD in the us He was already doing scientific conferences in Europe and he wanted, only wanted a letter from our government of no objections for him to stay on two more years in the us the embassy in Washington. This was before I became, I was reelected again three years ago. And he got my email because the embassy wouldn't help him. The embassy following, you know, the, the NARROWMINDED bureaucrats send his request to the foreign ministry. Of course, if you send anything to our foreign ministry, it might as well, you know, like you request, submit your death certificate. No response.
Speaker 1 00:03:47 Excuse
Speaker 0 00:03:47 Me. So I, I, pardon me? I emailed ambassador, listen, you are the ambassador, right? Your title is, that's extraordinary PO plenty ary, do it yourself. He said, no, objection God. But the idiot still has this. Anyway, so frustrated. I told the guy, listen, I send you a letter to the university with my cv, with all my titles. Hopefully because I was out of office or would not say hopefully they will be impressed and they'll, yeah, IN and the university, they had accepted for him to be two more years to do post doctorate. So remarkable young generation of Tim Ross giving the chance, you know, looking after them, supporting them, encouraging, giving them the best chance to the best school. But they out one Tim Young Timorese, three, four years ago, 14 years old in from a school in Delhi, Portuguese school, he enter an international math competition involving 50,000 students around the world. 30 schools math. He came number four. Wow. I don't remember number one, number two, number three, I, I know number one were not Chinese. But my curiosity was just to see where were the Chinese. And I was happy when the Chinese came, number seven, because usually the Chinese beat all of us. And so when the Timorese managed to beat a Chinese in math, I was so, well, I didn't care who was, who was number five was I just care about the Chinese was number seven and the Timorese number four.
Speaker 1 00:05:42 That's an amazing outcome. Outcome. Yeah, it is really. And you know, when I looked at this book for example, it was all through, through, it was stories of then and now and the future. So for example, I mean, I'll just quote quote one because it's very much the case. You were saying that at the time, excuse me, in the Timor of the fifties and sixties versus the Timor of today, the freedom dividends, for example, around the clock electrification of say 80%, 90% as opposed to what it was before. And this is the most important, is the people skills. The they, their people power. So it's not the electricity, it's the people power. But do you find now in the world that people are understanding the difference that the new Timor represents?
Speaker 0 00:06:24 Yeah. Yeah. If you read some of the media academic who never favor Timor independence, they always find some rationale to explain that after all, Timor is a basket case. Mm. We will write in saying Timor should not be independent. Facts are there. The statistic is not of my making or anyone making, these are statistics. So in 2002 we had less than 20 medical doctors. Today we have 1,200 plus medical doctors. In 2002, life expectancy was 57. Today is about 70.6 or 70.1 or two mm. In, in 2002 we had one university, 10,000 students. Today we have 18 universities, about 40,000, 50,000 active students than 20,000 more. Of course, it doesn't mean that I'm very happy that we have 18 too many. And sometimes we think that in open university, like open a canteen and, and, and Timor less would be happy enough, maximum five university, maximum Singapore, no need to explain Singapore, they have five universities and Timor less.
Speaker 0 00:08:04 We had to have a like anyway, but still, and we have at least 4,000 Tim Restudying in Indonesia in some of the best universities. We have hundreds in Europe, particularly in Portugal. But also Tim have reached PSC level, mass level in the uk. Juan Guy, I met him only by chance few years ago when I went to some event in St. Anthony, Antonio, he was already in the management of British aerospace. And one guy, he graduated in Washington DC he wrote to me, I don't remember what was the reason, but I, I always respond. And he had just finished job, he just needed something. I finish the degree he said, I said, when are you returning? He said, oh, I, I stay another two, three years because I was just invited to manage a construction company. So I just need to get more experience. So things like that.
Speaker 0 00:09:07 Many success stories enabled by independence, by freedom. In 2008, 2009, the government at the time led by Mr. Shanan, he, they started a, a, a a fund called Human Develop, human capital development fund, $30 million a year by which we sent in one goal 100 Timur East to four of the best universities in Thailand, 100 to the Philippines, four of the best. And these were negotiated, selected jointly by Timur and the, the universities there. And at one point there were more team study in Australia and the team, or less scholarship than Australian government scholarship. Wow. Portugal the same. So we have spent a significant amount of money selling our people abroad also in the country. So true. So in 2000, in 2002 as independent electricity was in and only partially in India and now in 90, the, the previous data from World Bank was 2021 was 96.1% of the territory. Wow. Wow. Although we must say that electricity is very expensive. Yeah, it's diesel. Yeah. You pay 20, we pay 24 cents per kilowatt when if it were solar it'll be like eight per 8 cents, 6 cent or 4 cent depends. So we transition to renewable, but gradually, slowly, realistically we know that. And other, other, they the Australian media enjoy talking a lot about China, Timor, China, China, Australia. I can understand that because we do respect to Australia.
Speaker 0 00:11:22 Not much happening in Australia on a daily basis like Anyti, you know, anyti is the same. So a minor, minor problem in my country involving the police. The police best up someone front page news in the all of Tim course and the journalists don't let it go because this is the news we have. So it goes on for days. And I tell Lisa, I understand nothing much happened here. And so you have to make up. So in Australia what constitute big news, Chinese threat because who else, you know, you cannot say New Zealand is going to be a threat. Tasmania is going to be a threat to the rest. Tasmanian welders being a threat. So, but, and then, and then they make, they make up stories. A recent Australian journalist went to Timur in her reporting. She said one of Chinese investment in Timur, Chinese support, you know, some Chinese grant, well they knew timber port, modern port that cost about $400 million.
Speaker 0 00:12:32 God if, if I were a little journalist like I was when at during Indonesian Portuguese time, anything I write particularly I go and research this figure is right or not quite, but this one the data is there. So the T port is this the first PPP public-private partnership that we ever established in Tibor involving our government with more than a hundred million dollars involving IFC or World Bank, more than a hundred million dollars and involving the French company bore. So, and then they searched for a operate a contractor. And this was done mainly by the French company bore they one investor and it was bore that wanted China Harbor to build it. And we paid this Chinese company. It's not like China had no involvement in the PPP in the public private partnership. No. China Harbor won the contract. And the contract was the, the, the choice was made by, so that's it.
Speaker 0 00:13:57 We never had in 22 years a single loan from China because we never request them. We never heard a loan from commercial banks. We never request, the only loans we have is from A-D-B-I-F-C, world Bank, et cetera. Yeah. And it does not constitute more than 13% of our foreign debt is one of the lowest in the world. And not because we mistrust the Chinese with the loan because, well we do our reading, we do our study, I do all the time and the figures claim by some sources in the west that about the death trap. I said, no, sorry, I'm so, because you know, I cannot validate things that I know it totally false, whether it is against China, whether even on if someone do something that I see patently wrong about United States, I say, sorry, this is not, no, this is not happening in the us This is a lie, this is makeup. So only that it is not right. Only 20% of the debt around the world, particularly enough is out to China. The most, how you say devastating debt. It come from western commercial banks, which are seven to 8% interest while Chinese commercial bank is average is 4%. And then you have other special loan from China, which is 1% or whatever. So it is not because we mistrust China and it doesn't mean we trust them 100%. And you know, my country, we don't trust each other. So why do I have to trust blindly?
Speaker 0 00:16:05 You know, that we make the Americans or the Chinese exception. Yeah, that's true. We don't trust each other. But totally silly. Let's have this mutual distrust in a large way. You know, it's a kind of very healthy Yeah. But you know, like in the eighties, in the eighties it was the, this decade of American Japanese bashing. Yeah. Because Japanese economy was hot. They buy, bought a lot of real estate all over the us and sacrilege as the French would say, sacrilege, they bought the Rockefeller Center in Australia. Australians would be totally, how you say, upset if someone had bought the Japan, the Japanese or Chinese bought or the Opera house. And in France probably would be Notre Dame. And in the west they don't have anything equivalent to Notre Dame. So they make a Rockefeller Center, the equivalent of Notre Dam. So and so the, the Japanese bought Rockefeller Center one. That was the ultimate audacity on the part of the Japanese buying our, you know, iconic. The, but then the economies, the economies that talk about Japan out pay out outtake in the US a number of economy were wrong.
Speaker 0 00:17:46 Then the ba Japanese bashing is stopped. That's true. One day China bashing will, bashing will stop probably because my view, you know, God, you know, for all the problems of the US is still an incredibly dynamic country, dynamic economy of creativity, of innovation, et cetera. Very difficult for any, any country to catch up with the United States. And they have all the resources of the wall. They protected by nature on the eastern front, eastern west coast or western front is they have the Pacific Ocean all the way to Hawaii. And they did a very good job in a hundred years or so ago, taken over Hawaii and then to the north Canada and Alaska and American founding president, you know, very smart. They bought Alaska Yeah. From the Russian, the Russian person, you know, whoever sold the Alaska to America. Yes. And then in front East coast is the Atlantic.
Speaker 0 00:18:57 So no possible potential, you know, enemy, you know, near well. Well China surrounded by border with so many countries, many and they have very limited sea. Yeah. And having become a maritime, a trade, a global trading country. Yeah. Global financial country. They're doing what the Americans, the British did for the past 100 years. You have to protect your seas. Yeah. You know, your shipping, your your the thousand thousands of Chinese ship. Because when there's the piracy problem happen in the Indian Ocean, the Chinese were embarrassed, they were caught unprepared. While the friends American, everybody went to the Indian Ocean. The Chinese were very timid, embarrassing presence. Yeah. So it has to do with that, not with they want this navy, this and to invade Australia or anyone.
Speaker 1 00:20:00 No, that's so true. And look, trade is fascinating, but trade in, as should we say, people skills is also really interesting for us as education. So if you think back, you've given examples of Japan, well it wasn't that long ago in sort of 1989 and you know, around that period and the, the Japanese and Bond corporation created a university together here in this country. And within four years it had gone broke. But the university's still here. So it's, they have a remarkable ability to reinvent themselves and people power education is very strong. So I just wanted to call out a few, you know, members of the audience and in this regard, because we have some very important people here. And one of them is turning 90, I think, or very soon. And that's Jean McLean. Can I just call out Jean McLean's role with both countries with Timor and Astray as being a great leader. Thank you, Jean for all the work that you've done, and happy birthday in advance. I believe it's as well. And of course sadly, but I want to remember the most devoted and excellent Helen Hill, who's, I know that many of you would've known Helen's work both countries over the years and years. And of course scattering ashes took place just in recent times. But you know, we don't forget, we don't forget the pioneers. We don't forget those who work with you and with others. And of course the incredible Steve Brax and Terry Brax and many others. And of course Harold Mitchell also, who is dearly departed.
Speaker 0 00:21:21 Helen Hill is the first Melbourne Australian I met in July 74 when I first came to Melbourne. Right. Helene Hill. I stayed in one of the, this pub, pub and the hotel, you know, with the Australian Union of students or Helen booked for me. Right. She came to see me there and ever she, she became a, a fixture in Timor Less. Yes, yes. With her old hat walking and, and she was very loyal to that. She would've
Speaker 1 00:22:03 Yes, that's true.
Speaker 0 00:22:05 Helen heal great and great human being. God. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:22:11 And you know, when we were there and we met together just 18 months ago and there was this event which happened quite spontaneously. All the students of Helen, more than a hundred, organized a tribute to her that evening. The same evening we met and suddenly just organically this celebration of life and careers and wonderfulness just took place right on the grounds of the presidential palace. Do you remember? It was this incredible to see. So this idea of education for everyone and uplift internationally was something she believed in You, believe in, we all believe in. And we wanna thank you for it. 'cause it's such an inspiration. You just gave those examples. It's so great.
