Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello and welcome. I'm here to provide acknowledgement of country. For those who don't know me, I'm kj Karen Jackson, director of Moon Dani Balletic. My genealogy tracks back to Moira Lakes in Barma Forest and Mount Hope in Pyramid Hill. Giving me my connections to Yorta, Yorta, and Barra language groups. There's a couple of things I'd like you to take away from my acknowledgement. The first is to remember the hidden history of Aboriginal people since invasion, our loss of language removal from country, and our new extinction from massacres and pandemics. The second is our strong and inherent connection to community and country. These connections have given us the resilience and courage to rebuild our languages, gain access to country, regenerate our cultural practices in acknowledging the traditional owners of the country on which you are now on. I'd like to sincerely thank them for their generosity and kindness in welcoming people onto their lands. Lands never seeded and lands that run deep into their being and spirit. I wish to pay my deep respect to the ancestors, elders, communities, and families of the rung wri on whose land I stand and who create connection and share knowledge with all of us. Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:01:17 Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to this incredibly special recording of the people of BU podcast with his Excellency president, Jose Ramos Horter, president of Timor Less Day. My name is Patrice O'Brien and I'm the Chief Advancement Officer at Victoria University. It is my absolute honor to be your mc for this live recording today. Before we start with the recording, there are a few important housekeeping matters that I would like to mention, so just bear with me as I run through these as we are recording the entire event today. I just wanted to let you know that if you do ask a question during the q and a, it's important to inform you that you will be included in the recording when it go, when it's released online. So if you're a little bit unsure about that, you may want to refrain from asking a question today.
Speaker 2 00:02:07 Given that we're recording, I also ask you to please make sure that you have your phones turned off or switched on to silent. If you could all do that, we would really appreciate it. We'll also be taking some photos during the event today, and if you would prefer not to be photographed, please just let one of us know. I'll let the photographer know and we'll ensure that we comply with those wishes. We do ask that no one else takes photos during the event today. If, if you wouldn't mind. Also, importantly, I just wanted to let you know that bathrooms are located right at the back here. If you go back past the lift lobby and down the corridor, they're on your right hand side.
Speaker 2 00:02:51 So I think that brings us through all of the housekeeping, so it's good to get all of that sorted out. But now let me get onto the more exciting part of today, and let me tell you a bit more about Victoria University's proud con connection with his Excellency President Ramos Halter's visit today is just the latest iteration in a long and meaningful affiliation between Victoria University and Timor Less day. During this relationship spanning for more than 30 years, Victoria University has collaborated with Key East Timorese educational institutions, including the National University of Timor-Leste, and the Dili Institute of Technology. We've facilitated study tours, student exchange programs, and supported Timor E students to study for postgraduate degrees in Melbourne in partnership with the National University of Timor, less Day withhold conferences, exploring themes like finding pathways to achieve sustainable development goals in Timor less day and higher education adapting during the Covid era.
Speaker 2 00:03:57 We're also really proud that so many East Timorese are alumni of our university, including the current minister of education, Dolce de Jez Suarez, who was also awarded an honorary doctorate at Victoria University in 2022. Back in 2001, our honored guest was appointed a distinguished visiting professor at Victoria University. An honorary position conferred on those who have achieved a national or international eminence in their field. In July, 2009, the university bestowed on his excellency and honorary doctorate in recognition of his outstanding commitment to the defense of human rights and his contribution to establishing Timor-Leste independence. In July, 2015, president Ramos Horter was a guest speaker with Victoria University speaking on the incredibly important topic of peace and conflicts. We are very grateful that today's podcast is the latest, but we are sure not the last visit to Victoria University by the president. Before we begin today's proceedings, I would like to invite Karen Jackson, the executive director of Ani Balik, to lead us in an acknowledgement of country Orkin, kj.
Speaker 3 00:05:15 Thank you.
Speaker 3 00:05:21 Thanks, Patrice. It's sort of when you say lead us in an acknowledgement, I felt like I should get up here and sing or something, but I shouldn't be doing that. Not today. You're probably not. Not my voice. So anyway, I'm Karen Jackson. Everybody calls me kj. I'm a Yra Ang woman and I'm very proud to be here today to give an acknowledgement of country. I wanna acknowledge the UND ang people on whose land we are meeting on today, but also make mention of the fabulous cultural heritage that was found on this site when building started here. As excavators came into this place on this country, they found a number of artifact scatters, which would've been used by aboriginal women to clean possum skins, to make cloaks with and to sew up on this space. Another interesting point about these artifact scatters that were found is that one of them was made outta glass, and so aboriginal women were on this site using tools and making possum skin cloaks at the time of settlement.
Speaker 3 00:06:28 And that's those sort of recognizable footprints of cultural heritage in the landscape are not found very often in the city under the concrete and under the bitman. And so that, for me, makes this space really quite special. The other thing I wanna talk about in terms of whose land we're on is the contestation of boundaries and the contestation of who our traditional owners and how that plays out in the politics and policies of systems in this country, in this colony, and what that means for you as people on this country and how you engage with traditional owners in this space. I also wanna make note that Vu is working really quite closely with Moon Dani Balik and traditional owners in thinking about and helping to untangle the impacts of colonization while also working with us with Aboriginal people and with Moon Dani Balik to thread change through the institution.
Speaker 3 00:07:32 And I think that's a really important space that the university is in, and it needs to grow into that space as well as doing those things. What I also wanna make mention is the trauma of, and the impact of dispossession and dispersal and aboriginal people, and that trauma and grief is still being played out in Aboriginal communities today. And it's, it is a sad and sorry tale that gets told in all sorts of spaces, and I think people need to recognize that trauma and the impact of dis dispossession and dispersal. But on the flip side of that is the amazing work that universities and und balik and aboriginal community, local communities are doing in terms of a strength-based return to retrieving language, to holding spaces and place for aboriginal people to gather in safety, to practice culture, to reconnect to each other, to understand our own identities, and to find joy and hope in identity making and regenerating place and community for Aboriginal people. That's the important work that Moon Dani ballot within Victoria University does with aboriginal community, with the commitment of the university on side. And I think that's great work. So in wrapping up, I'd like to acknowledge the ancestors and elders of the ri Ang on whose land we meet, and thank them, their elders and ancestors for sharing their knowledge and for being open to share knowledge and to share their country and to share practices with you. So thank you.
Speaker 5 00:09:07 That's great.
Speaker 6 00:09:10 Well, colleagues, friends, all, I cannot help but note that the aboriginal flag and the flag of Timor-Leste have certain things in correspondence with each other in terms of colors, spirit, and pride. And it is that for that reason, we wanted to demonstrate it right in front of you here today. My name is Adam Schumaker. I'm delighted to welcome his Excellency with us today. We've met twice before, once in Canberra, once in, of course, in Dili. And this is our third and perhaps the most interactive of all three discussions that we're gonna have. It's a live podcast to be broadcast at some future date with your approval and with your involvement, which we love. Thank you so much for attending. Can I say, if there's one word which sums up the life, I believe your amazing life and it continues on all over the world. I believe it's hope, and it's, I take as exhibit a words of hope, this collection of all of your speeches, which I found absolutely entrancing to read going back over more than 25 years, and of course published in this country as well, just as one, one example. Is that a word which has always been as close to your heart as I believe the word of hope and hopefulness?
Speaker 7 00:10:19 Well, I'm one of the few people who do not take myself too seriously. Yeah. Last time I was here in another room, I, I, I was one of the earlier to arrive and I went straight to the front row, which I shouldn't have done because it is not necessarily assume that I would, would be seated at the cross row. But anyway, it was empty. But then behind me in the second row was a young Asian looking woman, and I greeted her. We chat for one minute or so, 30 seconds, and she asked, she didn't know who I was, she asked what I do, and I said, well, I'm a homeless person. I, I always camp out at the gate of the university, and university is very nice. When there is an event, they always ask me to join.
Speaker 7 00:11:32 And, and then I was called, then someone introduced me like UL Yes. And, and then I went to speak to the podium. She was so embarrassed. And, but today in the plane, I was a more elaborate prank. I play on someone Oh yeah. From Hobart, Melbourne, a very nice man. He walk in after me, I was a receipt. He greeted me. And then we, we talk at first he, he, he asked what I, what I do. And I said, well, I'm a bank robber. He look at me a bit taken aback, but he was not too disturbed by that. And, and I made up a whole story as we went along. I was just worried alone. I might be, my facts were not matching what any, what knew. And I, I said I had robbed the Commonwealth Bank many years ago. And, and the only, but you know, according to the laws of Australia, no, no extradition from one state to another, which I made up. Yeah. And, and so I'm free to travel around except I cannot go to New South Wales. And, and then he asked me, which year was that, which I made up. I said, well, oh, it was in 1971. I just off and then how much did you,
Speaker 6 00:13:37 How much did you steal?
Speaker 7 00:13:39 I said, a hundred million dollars. I go away and said, how, how did you do it? That was a bit complicated. I, I start thinking, I said, I just downloaded. And the man was very smart. He was, he then did a calculation, he said in 1971, the speed of the internet was no internet. No internet. The speed of whatever electronic they had was this, this per per second opinion. So it took a long time for you to, I said, yeah, it took a long time. He said, and he said, good man, good man. He was it very, and very, very supportive. What I did.
Speaker 6 00:14:25 Sounds That's great, Pam. Very appreciative and very patient as well. It sounds like the whole trip was taken up. Head
Speaker 7 00:14:33 Story. Yeah. And then he asked me, what, where you were? Where I'm going to Melbourne. I'm going to the casino and spend the money. Anyway, I gave him my business card, which all my details there. He still didn't get it. Still didn't get it. And but then he said, well, when he, when I saw you, I thought you were welder. So, so he's a welder, not welder. He's pipeline, pipeline mechanic, main. He does maintenance of pipelines. Right. And so, but I told about east, so he knew all about pipeline and East Tim, and, and he gave some advice to the, Tim said, you gain more by the pipeline. Go into East Timor. Don't trust what White Australia will tell you. Interesting. That they will say, we love the Tim. And he was so funny, you know, he made gestures. Yeah. And he was with one hand, we love you.
Speaker 7 00:15:42 And then they, it was so funny. And then I got this personal story, oh God, which is about reflective of Australia. He is actually not native born. He was born in Malawi from a very mixed family. Mother African and the Portuguese father, mixed Indian and African. His father had 11 wives. So he had a lot of brothers from different mothers. And when they were young, he moved to with his mother to Australia. Okay. And so I kept asking questions, say, I'm going to write a story about you, about him. And, and so anyway, lots of the lovely men. And then he said, oh, I thought you were a welder, because I was wearing a white cap. Oh, yeah. And he said, the, the welder, they wear all the way the white cap. And I had the scarf, he said, the, the welder, they wear the scarf.
Speaker 7 00:16:50 Yeah. And I was wearing jeans. He said, the welders usually wear, he said, and he explain it's too pre prevent some too much heat. Yeah. On their head. Yeah. And the scars used to prevent the, the, you know, the thing jumping in the one that in the, their throat or their nose and, and instead of wearing cotton, cotton is very bad, it would burn right away. So jeans, it was, so anyway, that was my to more or less in a nutshell, my fun in the, I said after forgot. And then when this, the guy, when I write a story about it, I will apologize to him. I, sorry, I, I It was a prank on you. Yeah. But a very well meaning one, but central, a lovely man gonna invite him to visit him or less. Fantastic. Yeah. Oh, that's so great. May I, may I say, you know what I had prepared, which is completely different. He gave me his phone number and, and
Speaker 6 00:17:52 His You're gonna
Speaker 7 00:17:53 Hire him and his email address? Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:17:55 That's great. Well, he won no doubt. We'll work on the pipeline at some stage.
Speaker 7 00:17:58 Yeah. He, he, he does pipeline maintenance. Maintenance, yeah. And he explained to me something I didn't know he the pipeline and made of steel, but they are very flexible. He said like, spaghetti. Mm. Because I was under impression that it was a massive thing. It can break with earthquakes. He said, no, when it's lay on the ocean floor. It was like this, like he said, he used a word like spaghetti.
Speaker 6 00:18:29 Fantastic. And
Speaker 7 00:18:30 He knew all about pipelines. He is now, he flew to New Sydney and Newcastle. Yeah. To start a job there on lay or do maintenance of over pipelines. I said, simple pipeline, a gigantic pipeline. And then he did the internet. And then he showed me different pipelines. And still without knowing who I was,
Speaker 6 00:18:59 Well, you have this ability to evoke stories from people, and you're an incredible listener because, and you just re reproduced it back almost word
Speaker 7 00:19:07 For word.
Speaker 6 00:19:08 It's just an incredible skill. And I've noticed this in the pages of what you speak. Yeah. Half the time you say, I'm throwing away my notes, I'm just gonna speak. So I'm sorry. I'm gonna apologize in advance. It won't be very good. And there's this fantastic speech, just like this story. Now, so have you always been a marvelous storyteller? Is that something you've practiced?
Speaker 7 00:19:23 Well, I, I learned first from our oldest brother, way back in a remote village in Timor called AKA la in the evenings, you tell us stories, but always scar us with a ghost story. So although he was scared, he finished Tell another one, tell another one. Yeah. And, but yeah, then I tell stories to children. My, my many, many grand, grand nieces, grand, you know, so many kids. Of course now they're grown up. So, but when they're small, I kept telling them I made up stories, you know, but children, sometimes they're so smart. I tell a story the next day they want to hear again. I tell, but with I made up the stories, I then said, no, no, yesterday you didn't tell this. You know? So they remember that, that I, I, well, not, so anyway, I, yeah, I, I enjoy, but I enjoy particular meeting people of all walks of life.
Speaker 7 00:20:28 Here, here, when I was in New York, I became friends once with Afro-American taxi driver. Yeah. And I told him where I was from. He didn't know he had never been to the un. And then he, I said, would you like to visit? So he said, yes. So he dump his, the taxi in some corner in Manhattan. We walked to the un. I invite him to Delegate Lodge. And, and that turnout, he was an amateur singer and the great fan of the great Paul Robson. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. I end up meeting Paul Robson's brother, because of course I was too young to have met Paul Robson. And actually a few days ago I got a book by Paul Robson's, granddaughters Susan. Wow. She wrote a book about her grandfather. I knew Susan in New York. So I end up knitting the robs of them. And anyway, then one day with another taxi driver, I said, he said, where are you from?
Speaker 7 00:21:38 I said, from East Timor. Oh, that's where Captain Bly landed, you know? And, and then he meshed the book. Yeah, the Mutiny in the Bounty. Yeah. And I bought a mutiny in the bounty. I went right away to bibliography to see where his team was. Actually me, Timor, but actually Captain Bly didn't land in Portuguese team. Where he landed in, well, the, the er they landed in now in Dutch still for me, I was happy because he, and then another person, one day he asked me, I I went to a Chinese restaurant in Manhattan and the guy asked me between his accent and my accent, we didn't communicate very well. His limited English and our respect answer here, you know, where are you from? I said, East Timor. I said, I'm from East Tim. Oh yeah, you are from Istanbul. Did you see Midnight Express? Oh dear.
Speaker 7 00:22:45 Oh dear. And oh dear, I tried to correct. And then, no, it East Tim. Oh, you, you mean you are from Lebanon. Very bad down there. You better stay here. Get a green card. Oh, dear, dear. Before you know it, you'll be a sit. Anyway. A I enjoy people in general and enjoy, listen to human beings story. Only my story. But, and one day, I, I was in one the, the hall of a hall of a hotel. And I sat there, there was another gentleman there elegantly dressed. He asked me where I was from, I say, is Tim, he asked, what do you produce? I said, coffee, the best coffee in the world. And then it, I told him, our, the Tim of coffee, a very popular, very strong, it has a, a Viagra content, strong Viagra. He said, where can I buy
Speaker 6 00:24:06 Dear?
Speaker 7 00:24:06 Then I asked him, what, what do you do? Oh, I'm a, a film director in La la and later I googled him and, oh God, I don't remember his name. He died a few years ago. Very famous. He recognize his face. And so anyway, you meet all kinds, all kinds of people. Great Australians, great stories of Australian, how this country came into being and this gentleman today in the play, yeah, he a typical Australian, you know, so great to, they came from so many countries and they made a living here. And he has two sons. He is, he said, I have to work all the time, all the time to educate my children. Mm. And so
Speaker 6 00:24:58 It's a wonderful thing. And you know, we, we are so proud of the fact that we can connect on this plu cultural base, you know? 'cause when we have a graduation, and you've of course received an honorary doctorate from this university, we do a little poll and we ask people and a thousand people in the audience, we say, how many of you speak two languages? About 80%. We say, how many of you speak three languages? About 75%. How many of you speak four languages? About 50%. And we got up to six languages last time we did it. So we're so proud of that as being like a superpower, you know? And of course your an own nation is very multicultural, multilingual as well as are you.
