Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello and welcome. I'm here to provide acknowledgement of country. For those who don't know me, I'm kj Karen Jackson, director of Moon Dani Balletic. My genealogy tracks back to Moira Lakes in Barma Forest and Mount Hope in Pyramid Hill. Giving me my connections to Yorta, Yorta, and Barra language groups. There's a couple of things I'd like you to take away from my acknowledgement. The first is to remember the hidden history of Aboriginal people since invasion, our loss of language removal from country, and our new extinction from massacres and pandemics. The second is our strong and inherent connection to community and country. These connections have given us the resilience and courage to rebuild our languages, gain access to country, regenerate our cultural practices in acknowledging the traditional owners of the country on which you are now on. I'd like to sincerely thank them for their generosity and kindness in welcoming people onto their lands. Lands never seeded and lands that run deep into their being and spirit. I wish to pay my deep respect to the ancestors, elders, communities, and families of the rung wri on whose land I stand and who create connection and share knowledge with all of us. Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:01:18 So, it's an absolute delight to be here with Anusha and nra, one of our wonderful colleagues from vu. And of course the occasion is this year's March forwards for all women and girls. The theme of the International Women's Day. And of course that's a maximum embedded in pretty much everything we do. We have a plurality of women who are studying with us and working with us, but also we really believe in rights and responsibilities and taking it forward. For example, we have a very strong and long partnership with our watch, the leading gender pre prevention of gender violence organization in this country. So, and it's Anusha, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. It's so great to have you here. Now, one of the things that I wanted to ask you about is we both at one point in time decided to leave our native country and to come to Australia. Tell me, and put yourself back in that time and imagine what went through your head. Why did you decide to leave Mauritius?
Speaker 3 00:02:12 So, that's a great question, Adam. So I come from a very conventional family in Mauritius and in my family. My grandmother never went to school. She learned to read and write at the age of 60. Wow. My mother was allowed schooling, but my aunties, my dad's sister were pulled out of school so their siblings were allowed to finish schooling. Right. So I come from that conventional background. Yeah. But my mom was adamant that I was going to finish my schooling. So she did head over heels that not her daughter is going to finish school no matter what. So that's just a little bit of context. Yeah. Then obviously as the, you know, years passed by government enforced, you had to be in a school up until the age of 16. Yeah. But my mom was like, no, she's gonna finish school. So I went in, finished high school and I wanted to pursue my higher education and the only way I could afford to do that was to get a job. Back in Mauritius, there was this avenue you could get into teaching, then you do your degree after you get the job. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:03:18 Right, okay.
Speaker 3 00:03:19 Yeah. So I started teaching physical education Yeah. In a high school and did my bachelor in education there. Now why I left is that was, while that was financially good, it wasn't what I wanted to do. It was a way to finish a higher education and fulfill my mom's dream of her daughter needed to finish, you know, her education. Yeah. So in 20 2008, 2009, there was a lot of migration happening. A lot of education. You know, IDPs came to Mauritius to give speech of TAs, actors and all that. Yeah. So I told my mom, you know what? I think I am going to go. And she said, you don't know anyone. And I said, that's okay. I'm going to apply for a student visa. Right. And I'm gonna go. Yeah. So I spent one year saving money. Wow. Paid for my course upfront. Wow. Packs two suitcases. Yeah. And only knew two people in Australia.
Speaker 2 00:04:16 Wow. And And were they close friends or relatives or what?
Speaker 3 00:04:19 Just people
Speaker 2 00:04:20 I knew people there you knew. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:04:22 Not close friends, not families, just people that we came across in Mauritius and spoke for probably 10 minutes.
Speaker 2 00:04:29 Gosh, that's not a long time. And did you come to Melbourne?
Speaker 3 00:04:32 I came straight to me. Straight. Straight to Melbourne. Yeah. I had my accommodation paid for. I did a diploma in business at NMIT, and that's how I came to Reya.
Speaker 2 00:04:43 Wow. It's something else, you know, in my own case with bit earlier, but I came with one duffle bag over my shoulder and I didn't know anyone. And it was amazing. I mean, it was both an adventure and kind of daunting. And for about the first month I thought I'd made a terrible mistake. I was so homesick. Yeah. And I arrived when it was 42 degrees and I'd come out of minus 17 degrees in Canada and I couldn't adjust, you know? Yeah. And I went to Canberra and there were all these flies that suddenly appeared, you know, everywhere on your back and in your head. And I thought, I must be made a terrible mistake. But you sort of get used to it after a while. You
Speaker 3 00:05:19 Do. And funny enough, I came in the week that there was the Black Friday. No. Yep. So when I landed I was like, oh, why is it so hot? No one warned me. Oh. But it was, yeah. That week and Smokey, smokey hot flies everywhere. I couldn't get out. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 00:05:39 So you didn't, it didn't put you off though.
Speaker 3 00:05:40 No, no. I'm still here.
Speaker 2 00:05:43 But obviously you, you have a, what they call stick to itness. You have this kind of ability to see things through and very determine, very determining to do so. Yes. So, so tell me, what did you do after you did that? First it was a, was it an IT diploma or what was it?
Speaker 3 00:05:57 No, it was a diploma in business management. In business. Business management. Yep. Yeah. So while I was doing that, I work at Telstra Dom back then, you know all the jobs that you do as a student. Yeah. And I was applying for a course at Victoria University and there was a program called Student as Staff. Ah,
Speaker 2 00:06:15 Yes.
Speaker 3 00:06:16 Yes. And I got a casual position for the student I staff back then. And I was like, okay. You know, this was my first proper job. Yeah. Even though it was casual. So I came here and back then we were changing our first student management system. Yeah. And I got into the migration project.
Speaker 2 00:06:36 Right. Perfect timing. Perfect timing. You migrated, then you did a migration project. Yes. That's very good. Slightly different thing, but you know, I get the idea. Yeah. And so once you got into the zone of vu, did it seem like a comfortable family place to be? Or was it, did you have to do a lot to learn the ropes?
Speaker 3 00:06:54 See, I am someone, you'll put me in a role and I will do my 110% and even so more. At that time I needed the job. Right, right. Yes. So I was going above and beyond in what I was doing. Yes. But doing that role brought something forward for me. I never used to love numbers. Ah. I never used to love maths. As a high school, I needed to do maths, but it never made sense. Mm. I started working here looking at migration debt from the old system to the new system. I'm like, oh my God, Anisha you really good at this.
Speaker 2 00:07:29 Oh wow. You found out
Speaker 3 00:07:31 I, for I think first three months, that's all I was doing. Yeah. To Excel sheet, analyzing the old system versus the new system. And I was like, I really like this. So I applied for a unit called Business Statistic. Wow. As a non-war unit in Olson campus. Yes,
Speaker 2 00:07:49 Yes.
Speaker 3 00:07:49 And I got 98 outta a hundred. That's bad. I was like, Anusha, this is what you need to do. You need to change into accounting. Yeah. And I went and enrolled myself in an accounting degree.
Speaker 2 00:08:03 I'm glad you found out. I mean, imagine if you hadn't found that out. But
Speaker 3 00:08:07 You know, as a young adult, I never, it never made sense. Wow. So the point is, as you grow up, things change. And that's what happened for me. Mm. There was so much push as a high school, we had to be excelling in maths, we had to have three subject maths, English and French. And I was so good at English, so good at French, but really bad. I was barely making 47 out a hundred just to get a pass. Yeah. So I can keep going. But yeah, 90 years of
Speaker 2 00:08:37 A hundred, I think that's fantastic. But you know, it tells us a really interesting story, given the theme Yes. Of today that people marching forwards into the future for women and for so forth. You never really know the story till it's fully told. Correct. And you did not have it fully told when you're in Mauritius. No. But it sounds like for the first time it was getting more told here at vu,
Speaker 3 00:08:55 Here at vu. And also you never know where your career will take you. That it's not, you know, you're not going to progress. It's not linear. It's going to happen as you progress in life, as you get mature, you're going to discover your passion. So that's really what it took for me.
Speaker 2 00:09:12 I think so. And many people I think make the mistake of thinking that if they don't know by the age of 17, it's too late. And that's a mistake too, because
Speaker 3 00:09:19 That's a major, major mistake. And that's what happened to me. I went into doing something just for the sake of doing it because you know, that was the only option. But as I grew a few years later, things that never made sense, made sense. That's so good. Yeah. Comparison at a young age is very bad. Like we shouldn't be comparing to, you know, as you're growing, don't compare to adults together because your, your career path is going to be so much different than high school.
Speaker 2 00:09:46 So true. And then look at what you've done since then. It's so interesting. All the things. And of course we met in the VU Future Leaders program last year as well. But I'm just gonna name some things you've done. So a member of the Victorian directors of it, women in IT, community of practice in the Victorian directors of IT area, and of course community of practice as well. So more broadly, like this is really, you're really good at connection between people
Speaker 3 00:10:12 That it, so glad you brought that up. So the future emerging future leaders happen at a very wide time for me. Mm. I came back from mat leave and I wanted to know what's my next, yeah. And again, we had changed the new system. Yes. I'm so good at that. But in the emerging program, there was a workshop where they actually said, you know, it's okay to outgrow your role. And I was like, that's what's happening to me. I need to know what's my next. So through that program, I made some great network. You know, there was some mentorship, great networking opportunities. And I found a video DIT forum and I applied for it and got selected to represent Victoria University. Yeah. And I attended my first forum and funny enough, if we go back to the theme of, you know, March forward for women. Yeah. The women in co-op was created because the first forum that happened out of a hundred directors and CIOs in it, there was three women,
Speaker 2 00:11:09 Three only.
Speaker 3 00:11:10 Three only. And that's not because wow. We don't have enough women in it, but because it's such a male, do you know, dominated sector still to date and you would think in 2024 that's not true. Yes, yes. You know, looking marching forward for women, it's not about reflecting, it's really about how much more we've got to go for representation in different sectors. Yeah. And so I was like, this is somewhere I want to be. I wanna change, make a change, make my voice. Especially from where I come from. I'm on an island that's a dot on the map. Yes. So if I can even convince one more person, you know, you can change, you can bring a change, you can have the opportunity. If you put yourself through the uncomfortable situation, you know, work hard, then I'm making an impact. That's enough. So in that VDIT forum, what we are trying to, you know, bring forward is women to go out and apply for job.
Speaker 3 00:12:07 Even if you think you don't meet a hundred percent of the selection criteria. Right. And that was brought, I went back to do, to do a research on that. And there's a Harvard study in 2014 that said a man will look at a selection criteria and meet only 40 to 60% of it and apply for it. And women will only apply if she meets a hundred percent of the selection criteria. Wow. And that's got nothing to do with qualification or confidence. No, no. The study found a woman does not want to waste anyone's time. Right.
Speaker 2 00:12:44 And that's, it's in a sense it's self-sabotaging and self-censoring. Correct. And but for the sake of thoughtfulness in some weird way. But in fact it doesn't make the organizations better either 'cause that talent is there.
Speaker 3 00:12:55 Correct. Exactly.
Speaker 2 00:12:57 You know, and we want to make the most of it and so does the person. Yep. You
Speaker 3 00:13:00 Know, so one of the initiative we are taking in the video IT women in co-op, is to work with universities to rewrite selection criteria. Yeah. To be a bit more broader. Yeah. To be a bit more encouraging because it's got nothing to do with qualification. I'm an example. That qualification can be gained along the way. I'm now enrolling into a master in data analytics. Yes. 'cause that's where my passion is. Yes. But if I was to apply for this job prior my canal job as a finance analyst and I would have waited to get my masters, you know, it, it's, it's okay to, to give benefit to women to keep pursuing their careers and then get the qualification at the same time. It's
Speaker 2 00:13:41 Very hard. Look, I'll just give you a small example. In my own career I spoke French, not as well as you. I wasn't fluent but close. And then I worked for about six months and France got a bit better. So at one point I decided to work for the European community at least to try to work and IT but in Australia for their diplomatic delegation in Canberra. So French was the working language and I had to do the exam in French. Yeah. I was packing it, I was so nervous. Right. Turned out I man managed to get my way through, but suddenly it wasn't the French that the problem was the job was working as you had at one point with statistics. And I remember the freight onboard prices of peaches from Antwerp to another location. I had not studied anything like that in my humanities degree and suddenly I had to do it. So sometimes you're sort of faced with these challenges and you're the kind of person who just grabbed it with both hands and said, I can do this thing. I'm riding this bicycle. Yeah. It's amazing. It's so terrific to hear. And so what do you think is next?
Speaker 3 00:14:35 So my next, as I said, is now going to do my masters in data analytics. Yeah. But also to work very closely with the women in IT co-op to Yeah. We are working with universities to change the selection criteria but also to encourage women. Just put yourself with uncomfortable scenarios. Have the conversation. Like I was lucky enough here at VU we have an open door policy. So when my job as a finance system analyst was advertised, I was able to go directly to the director to say, you know what, I've been working, these are my roles, my previous roles at vu. Yeah. And I wanna apply for this. Mm. And Michael, my now director, funny enough said Anusha, you have to be in it to be given a fair go. True. So unless you do it, and that's the conversation women needs to have. If you are looking at a job and you are only meeting 60% have the conversation. But you have to apply to be given the opportunity. And there's so much talk about equality and opportunity, but if you are not putting yourself through it, that no one is going to open the door for
Speaker 2 00:15:37 You. Yeah. Won't happen otherwise. And they have that, you know, that famous phrase in French that say Z on attack. On attack, you know, on attack. Have a go. Yep. Make sure you're seen
Speaker 3 00:15:46 Acceptable.
Speaker 2 00:15:47 And so we're just putting a little bit of French in there to encourage everyone. But that's the kind of thing you'll hear if you ever see the French national team playing football and I mean the women's national team Yeah. As well. So can I say to you, it's been such a great discussion. It's such a vu discussion, but it's also such an international discussion and you know, they used to say they, the very early sort of mo motive and motive for SPS was bringing the world back home. And in a way this is what VU does as well. And you've just described it beautifully. Thank you. I want to thank you so much.
Speaker 3 00:16:21 Thank you. Thank you. And you know, there's so much more to be done in this march forward with, and like I said, we are not talking about reflecting, we're talking about how much more we are yet to do. And my motto personally for me, that has driven me so far in life has been, you know, talk about equality and opportunity. But when we are talking about opportunity, we we're talking about liberal opportunity. Yeah. We are talking about, you know, you're a man, you're driven at a certain age. You have the ability to apply for the job. You have two kids, no one is questioning how you're managing that. Then don't question a woman on how she's going to manage it because she's going to, she will dev deliver what is expected from her. So I've been very lucky in this and organization that we work, that I've been given those opportunities, but I've gone knocking on the door to prove myself as
Speaker 2 00:17:09 Well. Yeah. And maybe we have a, have to a few doors open so they don't have to be knocked on, knocked in the first place. Very true. Which should be great. Yes. Ashanti, thank you again. Me.
Speaker 3 00:17:19 Okay.
