Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello and welcome. I'm here to provide acknowledgement of country. For those who don't know me, I'm kj Karen Jackson, director of Moon Balletic. My genealogy tracks back to Moira Lakes in Barma Forest and Mount Hope in Pyramid Hill. Giving me my connections to Yorta, Yorta, and Barra language groups. There's a couple of things I'd like you to take away from my acknowledgement. The first is to remember the hidden history of Aboriginal people since invasion, our loss of language removal from country, and our new extinction from massacres and pandemics. The second is our strong and inherent connection to community and country. These connections have given us the resilience and courage to rebuild our languages, gain access to country, regenerate our cultural practices in acknowledging the traditional owners of the country on which you are now on. I'd like to sincerely thank them for their generosity and kindness in welcoming people onto their lands. Lands never seeded and lands that run deep into their being and spirit. I wish to pay my deep respect to the ancestors, elders, communities, and families of the rung wri on whose land I stand and who create connection and share knowledge with all of us. Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:01:18 Hello, colleagues, and welcome to the People of VU podcast. It's incredible to be back. And can I thank as always, KJ Karen Jackson for her amazing welcome to Country and acknowledgement of what we are, where we are, and why we are here. It's also the case that I wanna pay my own respects and deep tribute to ancestors, elders, and people and families of the traditional owners on every campus in every location, wherever we might be, and wherever you might be listening. So can I say this is about place and time and purpose we have with us the mayor of Rabon, Councillor Mohammed sra. It's a wonderful thing for the first time to have him on this podcast in the studio today, Mohammad is not only one of the youngest mayors in the whole of Australia, but also the first Sudanese Australian mayor elected anywhere. And it's wonderful to have you with us. Welcome to the podcast. Thank
Speaker 3 00:02:11 You so much for having me on, Adam.
Speaker 2 00:02:12 It's just great few things about you, just because people are so interested. They might have seen your story on Australian story, but for those who may might have missed it, not only born in Sudan and raised in Melbourne's West, you've been championing a lot of important things. Equity, empowerment, combating racism locally, nationally, and globally. And for many years, establishing yourself as a really trusted community leader and advocate at what the age of about 28. 27. 27. Okay. I'm looking forward to the future soon. Thank you. When is your birthday?
Speaker 3 00:02:44 September 2nd.
Speaker 2 00:02:44 Okay. What's coming up in about, it's coming up quite soon, and before being elected to council in 2024, you co-founded Endeavor Youth Australia, which is really important organization that led through leadership and development and support and empowerment again. And 2023 was nominated. You were nominated for Young Australian of the Year. You've been a UN Peace ambassador. Where does this list stop? And also featured, as I said before, in an episode of Australian Story, which is a must see for anyone. So I really highly recommend it. We're lucky to have you here today. And we moham. Thank you again. So Moha, I want to go back. When we started and walked in, you said that she had dropped off your mom at an English language class, and we talked about language and its importance. Let's go back in time. How many languages did you learn when you were very young growing up in Sudan? I mean, and also how many languages were spoken in your family? Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:03:34 There are a few languages spoken in my family. If you look at my mom, she is, you know, half Sudanese, half Ian, and my grandma herself speaks seven languages. So I had my pick of which languages to learn. So I obviously learned Arabic. I had to learn my own tribal language, but I can't say I'm an expert in that. And it's a very unique one because there's no written language. So I had to learn it by hearing my mom speak it by going back to Sudan, you know, hearing my family speak. And it was a way to connect with them.
Speaker 2 00:04:09 It's amazing. Eh? What, what's it called?
Speaker 3 00:04:10 It's called Beit.
Speaker 2 00:04:12 Beit Beit. And is it, but do it and is it the case that it's always been oral only?
Speaker 3 00:04:16 It's always been oral for thousands of years.
Speaker 2 00:04:18 Amazing. Right. And you see, 'cause people don't remember linguists do, but the rest of the population might not just how many oral languages there are in the world. And even in Australia, there were more than 500 spoken languages at the time of invasion. And yet how many are written? It depends on how you look at it, but the truth of the matter is that oral history is embedded in what's spoken and the storytelling is so powerful. Were there particular stories that you were told as you were young?
Speaker 3 00:04:45 There were a lot of stories I was told when I was young. A lot of them, I don't know if they were meant to scare me, but there was a lesson in in in each of them.
Speaker 2 00:04:55 Interesting. And was this often at, at night before bed or all the time at
Speaker 3 00:04:59 Night before bed?
Speaker 2 00:04:59 Ah, yeah. This, that seems to be part of the pattern, right? That people have a message, something to think about as you're drifting off to sleep and it focuses in the, the mind. And sometimes you even dream about it too. Did you ever dream in another language
Speaker 3 00:05:12 Dream in another language? That's very interesting. If I dreamed in another language, it would be Arabic because it's, it's the language that, that I know the most
Speaker 2 00:05:21 Interesting. Because I mean, often people say if you're truly trilingual or quad lingual, you can sort of go between different languages in your sleep. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's something which is quite, quite true. People just don't, they shift and, and it just happens. We often at our graduations ask the audience, how many languages do you speak in the community? And we go up to six in the audience. So what a wonderful thing to be in the West of Melbourne where it's so diverse. Oh,
Speaker 3 00:05:45 It's so diverse. And I think it's a melting pot of languages, creativity, culture. And that's what's very interesting about our community.
Speaker 2 00:05:52 It's so great. Tell us, for those who don't know, how old were you when you came to this country? So
Speaker 3 00:05:57 I was fairly young. I was three years old when I came. Yeah. I came with five, five of my siblings, three brothers and two sisters, and my mom came by herself. So coming to a whole new country, not knowing what to expect, how she was going to be received, I learned a lot of resilience from resilience from my mom, seeing her have to make up things as she went. And growing up in public housing, seeing my mom go above and beyond to ensure that we had, you know, food on our table each night. Yeah. It was definitely made me the person I'm today.
Speaker 2 00:06:29 She sounds like a legendary person. Absolutely. Wow. We should have her also being interviewed, whether do a multi-generational interview,
Speaker 3 00:06:34 Multi-generational interview,
Speaker 2 00:06:35 That'd great. You know, but in a way we're attributing a tribute to her as well in having you here today. I think that's, that's really appropriate. And so you came at a very young age and then you actually did many things in school. So just tell us a bit about that journey, what it was like, how did you feel
Speaker 3 00:06:51 Growing up in Australia especially, you know, in public housing in Braybrook, there was obviously a lot of barriers. And living in Braybrook, I learned early on that, you know, you could live in the same area but have different access to opportunity. Hmm. And me personally, I had a few barriers that I had growing up with a very severe stutter. So every time I would speak, my head would rock, my tongue would come out. And it was extremely difficult to be able to express myself. Yeah. I had a very strong sense of justice growing up. Obviously through the values instilled in me by my mom, I could identify a problem for what it is. And I wanted to be a part of the solution. But it was difficult advocating for myself, advocating for others, and, you know, coupled with, you know, experiencing racism, obviously being visibly, you know, different in my skin color.
Speaker 3 00:07:47 Early on I began to realize that there was a precon, there were preconceived ideas about my behavior, about my intentions. You know, if I looked at the media, how the media was, was portraying my community and certain politicians using, you know, my community as a political football. And there were definitely challenges growing up. But would I go back and take away my stutter? Would I go back and, you know, take away the racism I experienced? I wouldn't because it definitely made me the person I'm today. I came across a quote recently and it read Take Learning as a gift. Even if pain is a teacher, you know, learn when things are hard, you know, take learning from it when things don't go your way,
Speaker 2 00:08:30 There's learning from all experiences, you know, not just those which you might remember as being the triumphant ones.
Speaker 3 00:08:37 Most definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:08:38 Can very much be the case. So did you have particular teachers who stood out in your memory as being formative and supportive?
Speaker 3 00:08:47 I had teachers as well as people in the community that helped me become the person I'm today and reach, you know, the position I'm today, I had an English teacher that identified in my potential. I was very, you know, like she identified that I was very, you know, my written work was, was excellent. And she told me to join debating and obviously I had a stutter. So she went out of her way and found a speech therapist, course me to TRO University at the time. Yeah. It was a, it, it was led by Susan Block, a world renowned speech therapist. And I learned how to speak from the very beginning. And so that was the opportunity that I needed to really, you know, pursue a lot of the things that I wanted to do. But I also had a social worker that was connected through the department to my mom.
Speaker 3 00:09:44 Her name was Michelle. Yeah. She worked with my mom for about three years until, you know, her contract ended, but she became so close to our family that she stuck around. Wow. And so my first time going to the zoo, my first time going to the aquarium, know my first time experiencing a lot of things that my mom couldn't afford. Michelle supported us to do that. Wow. And she used to have a house down in the Great Ocean Road and she'll take us on holidays Wow. During school holidays. And so I think it's people's kindness that created a ripple effect. I think gratitude
Speaker 2 00:10:28 Does echo Mm. In both ways. I can hear in your voice too, the the sense of the history, which is not a long history, but a very important point of history. But also we we're paying tribute to your mom, to those formative people and to their kindness as you've just done. I think it's a wonderful thing. And as you went through, I'm sure your confidence was increasing too, because o overcoming that barrier must have been huge debating. Do you remember your first debate?
Speaker 3 00:10:52 I remember my first debate. Wow.
Speaker 2 00:10:54 Tell us about that. And
Speaker 3 00:10:55 It was a very, it was a very exciting time. Yeah. Because when I initially joined debating, I was the only African on my team. I, I was the only, you know, student from migrant refugee background. And so it was very difficult for me. Right. And, you know, going into a, into a space and it not really being the thing that you usually do, but three months down the track, ICC convinced all of my friends to join. Wow. And so our entire debate team was now African. And so going into our first debate, it was me two, two of my best friends, my brother from Sudan, a brother from Somalia. And we walked into our debate and we saw other students Right. That obviously they came from no more privileged schools, had a number of badges on their blazer and say it was, it was a very fulfilling win. Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2 00:11:47 Bit of a bit of a challenge to reach.
Speaker 3 00:11:50 Yeah. It was, it was a challenge to win but to do that alongside my friends Yeah. And to feel more connected to the school that for a very long time we might not have, have had a sense of belonging. And so me initially taking that step to join debating allowed them to join and, and collectively we felt more a part of the school and then it allowed us to continue kind of, you know, 'cause I'll, I'll be honest, Adam, him, yeah. There are a lot of marginalized communities, especially African community, that might go into school and not see themselves represented in the staffing, not see themselves represented in the curriculum. Yeah. And it's easy to disassociate yourself from an environment where you feel like you don't belong. And so having my English teacher invest in my potential allowed me the tools I needed to make it easier for others around me.
Speaker 2 00:12:42 I think it's a wonderful thing,
Speaker 3 00:12:43 Honestly. And I think what I think that's what my understanding of leadership is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:46 I really think you've evoked that beautifully because that sense of, as you said, echoing from one person to many, so an individual becomes the collective. And what I see in your career, you're an individual, but you're always referring to the collective, you know, the general community or your own community. That's a wonderful thing. How you're toggling back and forth. That must be a very good thing as mayor, right. Because the mayor is not just the individual, it's reflecting the whole city.
Speaker 3 00:13:12 Most definitely. And there's no greater privilege than, than to be the mayor of the city of Melbourne on being able to articulate all the great work, but also take the community with me on that journey. True. 'cause obviously there are six other decision makers, but as mayor, you are representing the city. And so anytime, you know, I I speak people see it as like the city of Ong speaking. Yeah. So I, I do take that very seriously. But also my lived experience plays a key part in how I conduct myself, which I think, you know, is, is going well and
Speaker 2 00:13:43 It's very, it's very respectful and very impactful. I gotta say what you've been doing. Now, for those of you in on the listenership who don't know where Mar Rabon is or how to spell it, we might discuss this. Why is it called not not called Footscray or something like that. Yeah. Why is it called Marab?
Speaker 3 00:13:58 So it used to be called the city of Footscray. Yes. But then, you know, the, the, the city of Ong is, is is much bigger than Footscray. And I went to Melbourne on college, it was on my chest and I struggled my whole life to spell it or to say it. But it is an indigenous word. And, and I think it allows us to have that deeper connection with, in the indigenous heritage and have a connection to land.
Speaker 2 00:14:25 And also it isn't the case that everything has to be easy, as you said before, even names should be understood as part of the river that wind winds its way through. And we can see it close to this campus that is the lifeblood of the whole area. And so Banong is a wonderful evoking name for moving forward Mm. Flowing. Yep. Going in a direction it isn't static. And that's just like your career and, and the city itself. We have a very close relationship with the council, as you know, and more sites in the city of Marab than anywhere else in the world. Yeah. You know, that's so exciting for us.
Speaker 3 00:15:00 Yeah. And, and we value, you know, v Victoria University definitely a key part and staple in, in our city. And I think key to our story as we grow and develop.
Speaker 2 00:15:10 Now tell me, you know, a bit more about VU as well because you've actually enrolled as a student. Yeah. I know that you have other obligations, but what did you enroll in and, and why? How did you choose?
Speaker 3 00:15:19 I'm doing a bachelor of business management. Yeah. And 'cause obviously I run my own organization and in choosing my degree I wanted, you know, to go to a university where I could feel like I belong. And I think one thing about Victoria University, there's definitely a sense of belonging in, in looking at the student cohort and looking at the staffing and it, even the model itself, it allows you to grow, I think
Speaker 2 00:15:47 Does, does the block model work for you? Yeah. In the sense of, 'cause you're working full time as well. How do you fit everything in your life?
Speaker 3 00:15:55 What I would say is the block model is an excellent model. Yeah. And honestly, I, I don't think I would be able to, in this time in my career, be able to study at another university. Mm. Yeah. Is it's, it's so well structured that the support you receive is Yeah. It's
Speaker 2 00:16:15 Unbelievable.
Speaker 3 00:16:16 Unbelievable.
Speaker 2 00:16:16 Yeah. It almost makes me want to go back and be an undergraduate again, you know, but then I have to teach it as well. That's a bit of a problem, you know? Yeah, yeah. I'm actually doing a class next week in the block then first year students. So you stay in touch. Yeah. And it's a wonderful thing to see people's eyes light up when everyone in the group participates. It's not just one or two or three Exactly. 25, 27 people as a group. And that's a bit like a council meeting, frankly. Yeah. So what do you do if someone heckles you in a council meeting? Has that ever happened?
Speaker 3 00:16:42 It has. I'm a very patient person, Adam. Yes. How I, how I conduct the meeting is I lead by example. I think if people see you calm and if you don't like overreact to anything, I, I, I, I think people respect that. So in, when I did have hecklers, I would, I would remind them about around the rules. I won't make it about them, I won't make it about me, I'll make it about, about the meeting. Great. About the system. And it's worked out.
Speaker 2 00:17:08 That's great. Well again, that's the collective Yeah. The collective benefit, which is so good. So if you think about it, we've talked about rabon, we talked about what you're studying and we talked about challenges a little bit in the world. What do you think are the two or three biggest challenges for us to address in this part of Melbourne going forward? Because I mean, you're really involved in this. What do you think?
Speaker 3 00:17:27 I think what is great about the West is we are beginning to understand our confidence. I think for a very long time, you know, the west was spoken about in terms of what it didn't have, doesn't have infrastructure, you know, it, it doesn't have en enough investment. And while those issues are still, you know, a reality and we, and, and we should advocate for our fair share, I think the story's evolving. Yeah. You know, there's so much more to the west. It's growing. And I think when I look at the challenges, we are a rapidly growing community. If you look at Melbourne on, for instance, we're going to increase our population by 50% by 2050. And so the challenge for me as mayor and as a council and as a decision makers, ensuring that our infrastructure meets that growth. And, and I think there's so much being done at the moment that's in the pipeline. And so wanting that to continue, we want to ensure that people can, you know, be employed closer to home. That, you know, our transport is, is is connected, fast, accessible. And I think that's all in the pipeline. And with great people in this space advocating for the right things, I think we can get there. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:18:41 That's, that's so positive. Tell me, when, when you are thinking about the mayor situation, I've always wondered why it's only a year at a time. Mm. You know that people are mayor. Yeah. Is there a reason why it's so short?
Speaker 3 00:18:52 I don't think there's a reason, but every year there is an election. Yes. And so it's all a numbers game, Adam. Yes. If you have the numbers Yeah. You get the votes.
Speaker 2 00:19:04 And I, I sort of got the impression too, it was a bit of a sense of, because it's collective, people like to share a hundred percent. You know, and that's part of the reason Yeah. It's not like being Prime Minister for 10 years Yeah. Or something like that is a, a triumph. It's more what do you do for the community. Exactly. Not just what you do for yourself. Exactly. Is that, have I read that correctly? Yep.
Speaker 3 00:19:20 You you read that perfectly. Yeah. And, and I think it's an unwritten rule Yeah. Type of thing.
Speaker 2 00:19:25 And that's a nice thing. Yeah. You know, and so you go from badges in school to a, a slightly heavier gold chain. How heavy is that chain?
Speaker 3 00:19:32 It's pretty heavy. But you know, I like to think I'm, I'm a fit person, so
Speaker 2 00:19:36 It's not too heavy to wear. Nah, no, that's
Speaker 3 00:19:37 Great. It's
Speaker 2 00:19:38 Not too heavy, but it's nice to have the tradition because you talked before about oral tradition, cultural tradition, linguistic tradition. And now we're talking about representational tradition as well. Democracy at work and you evoke it. So when you think about that and you're going to say work each day, where do you feel you're crossing the threshold? Is it at the front door or as you're on the way to work? I mean, or do you feel like it's all just maron? In other words, there's no real division between where you live and where you work.
Speaker 3 00:20:06 I, I don't think there's a division for me growing up, I lived in community for more than 20 years. But what I would say is walking into town hall as a counselor for the very first time was a surreal feeling. I think the way the weight of the responsibility fell on me. And it was a very humbling experience. And I've never been one to like shy away from responsibility. And anytime that I walk into town hall, seeing the heritage and understanding that there were many other counselors and mayors before me and having to continue a legacy that's been here for over a hundred years. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:20:47 It's fantastic, isn't it? Yeah. Someone said to me that I'm unlucky to have a role, which is in a sense representational too. And someone said to me once, you never really own a role. Yeah. You're just a custodian of
Speaker 3 00:20:57 A role. Custodian. Exactly. That's the word.
Speaker 2 00:20:58 Yeah, that's the true, yeah. And I often, you know, treat it that way too. And you think of that as being, as long as they, the police, the people, the community thrive, we're happy individuals. Literally. That's what it's about. That's what it's about. Mohamed, is there anything that you're thinking about next, I mean for the future? Because you talked about 20 30, 20 50. If you could change Australia for the better in the next 10 years, what would you do if you had the power? I know power's a, a difficult word.
Speaker 3 00:21:26 I think I would ensure more representational leadership in the sense that, you know, why I started Endeavor Youth Australia. 'cause I, I realized early on that you know, where we are as a country in terms of our diversity isn't represented in our leadership across all sectors. And I think for us to, you know, make good decision making that takes the entire community with us, then the decision making table needs to be representative of modern day Australia. Yeah. You know, modern day Australia is 50% either speak another language or have a parent that's born overseas. And anytime I do make decisions and I'm in a room, I always ask myself, how would the decision have been or where would it be, be geared towards if I wasn't in the room being in my lived experience or being my, bringing my perspective as a relatively young person.
Speaker 2 00:22:19 So really what I think you're saying, if I'm hearing it correctly, is reflect the reality. Mm. The lived reality of Australia as it is the proud reality of where it is. Not just the potential but the actuality. Exactly. And I think that's a wonderful thing. Yeah. Mohamed, this has been a great talk and I really thank you for it. I
Speaker 3 00:22:37 Appreciate Adam, thank you so much for having me on.
